Tilt and shift ... using Nikon bellows?

[Steph_B]

Darn it!... I posted this thread in the ViewFinder forum instead of here (its rightful place!). Sorry!

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Hello everybody!

Here is a toughie for all of you camera buffs!

I am quite interested in getting very (meaning: VERY) large DOF which lenses with a shift/tilt feature can provide.... Since I am only shooting 35mm and that all my gear is Nikon, I am left with two choices:
- buy these overly expensive fixed PC lenses (but then I need to sell my car!)
- buy a used bellow such as the PB-4 or PB-6 from Nikon. You can now find them for $200-300... and being broke, I don't mind carrying them around!

Are bellows really working for increasing DOF and compensating perspective distortion?

I suppose that (with a bellow) I can use the lenses that I am now using... however, I will probably loose some features such as AF and metering. Is this right?

I suppose also that the G lenses are not going to work with the older Nikon bellows. How about the 'new' PB-6?

PS: Bellows are usually advocated for close up work (and for the right reasons).... But nobody mentions perspective compensation and DOF...

Any suggestions? Thanks!

Steph.

[another view]

Those types of bellows units are made for macro use and won't do any perspective correction. The front slides back and forth on rails, and you would need something that would do tilts and shifts. Calumet makes something like that for DSLR's, and it's over $2k. It's made for architectural and studio photographers who need a digital shot instead of using their large format cameras. There are large format digital scanning backs, but they cost about as much as a house and are really slow...

Another problem you'll run into (I would imagine) is the size of the imaging circle. The lens projects the image in a circle, and that circle has to be at least as big as the piece of film (or digital sensor) you're using. With 35mm, lens designers only have to worry about a small imaging circle because the film is 24x36mm. You're also not doing any rise, shift or tilt with it. If you were, you'd use a different section of the circle than just the middle (which is what you have with 35mm or Hasselblad, etc). It's the different areas of the image within that circle that give you the effects you're looking for. If you start shifting/tilting, etc then you'll probably get outside of the image circle pretty quickly. You could probably hack apart a bellows system to see what works, but I can't imagine it would be worth the effort and expense.

How about a 4x5 large format camera? It's a whole different beast. Large format lenses are designed to give you a big enough imaging circle to handle all of the adjustments. Some lenses can work on 8x10 cameras, but any large format can work on a 4x5 which is the smallest and most common size of LF camera. Older ones come up all the time on ebay, and it's not like you really need anything high tech here! Here's a good starter: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?PAGE...temNo=CC3000K1

[Steph_B]

Those types of bellows units are made for macro use and won't do any perspective correction. The front slides back and forth on rails, and you would need something that would do tilts and shifts. Calumet makes something like that for DSLR's, and it's over $2k. It's made for architectural and studio photographers who need a digital shot instead of using their large format cameras. There are large format digital scanning backs, but they cost about as much as a house and are really slow...

Another problem you'll run into (I would imagine) is the size of the imaging circle. The lens projects the image in a circle, and that circle has to be at least as big as the piece of film (or digital sensor) you're using. With 35mm, lens designers only have to worry about a small imaging circle because the film is 24x36mm. You're also not doing any rise, shift or tilt with it. If you were, you'd use a different section of the circle than just the middle (which is what you have with 35mm or Hasselblad, etc). It's the different areas of the image within that circle that give you the effects you're looking for. If you start shifting/tilting, etc then you'll probably get outside of the image circle pretty quickly. You could probably hack apart a bellows system to see what works, but I can't imagine it would be worth the effort and expense.

How about a 4x5 large format camera? It's a whole different beast. Large format lenses are designed to give you a big enough imaging circle to handle all of the adjustments. Some lenses can work on 8x10 cameras, but any large format can work on a 4x5 which is the smallest and most common size of LF camera. Older ones come up all the time on ebay, and it's not like you really need anything high tech here! Here's a good starter: http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?PAGE...temNo=CC3000K1

Thanks for your very nice and detailed reply. I think you're right. The newest bellows from Nikon do not have the tilt or shift capability. Hence they are useless for me...

The older PB4 however has a tilt feature. But as you said, my normal lenses are probably not going to give me any leeway in playing with the perspective.

Well I guess I just need to think going LF then.... Gosh, I already complain about the gear being too heavy!

Thanks again for your advices.

Cheers,

Stephane