need help understanding this post Please

[natatbeach]

Can someone explain what's up with the colors and what I'm supposed to learn from this...not being sarcastic I really want to understand it...since no explanation was obviously going to be posted I fuigured one of you greats in moderation could help Thnaks...I would love to learn more about PS techniques

Marshall Lake

[another view]

I'll try to help - but I'm not one of the gurus! With histograms, you're looking at an image by the numbers, so to speak. The left side is the shadow areas (darker areas) and the right side is the highlights (lighter areas). Look at the three color histograms (red, blue, green). See how the red and green are pretty close to each other - but the blue has so much more to the right? That's why there's so much blue in the image.

Not that this is always a bad thing - if you were shooting a picture of just the clear sky, you'd expect this - just the way you would expect an exposure histogram (the black one) to be mostly to the right if you wanted a night shot to be dark - or to the left if you were shooting a polar bear in a snow storm.

With landscapes, I'd say that the blue histogram is too far to the left - which agrees with my impression of the image.

Hope this helps...

[Lara]

Nat, this is one of the reasons I have been hesitant to even begin with buying a decent camera and posting photos. I'm afraid that because I am a complete beginner, with little or no knowledge of photoshop, and am way less talented that the person who posted the landscape shot, my photos wouldn't belong here. I'm scared that I will look foolish. I have seen histograms, but I have no clue what they mean, and how to use them. I know a lot of people on this site would never intentionally make someone feel inadequate, and most likely they would be supportive, but the fear is always there.

Just my thoughts. Maybe a forum for beginners, with some support of the members here would be a solution, I dunno. We all have to start somewhere, and while critique is important, patience and teaching little by little helps build confidence.

[Sean Dempsey]

Friends,

Don't pay any mind to the comments by JoeD in that thread. All it was an example of was a raging ego. We all learn at our own pace, and I learned something new about histograms as well from that post.

Please, post your images no matter what level of experience. There will always be egos and arrogant people, especially in the world of photography. Just be sure to keep taking pictures, keep posting pictures, keep posting comments, and keep shooting Canon because Canon is the objective best and if you don't know that you're a horrible stupid person who can't run photoshop.

(that last part was a joke).

[Asylum Steve]

nat,

Don't let anyone tell you you need to use histograms to color correct an image. I've never used them for that...

I have this big screen thing attached to my computer called a monitor. I have two eyes that work pretty well. Photoshop has a myriad of color correction tools, and when I use any one of them, it's funny, but I can actually SEE the results on my monitor screen.

Color channel histograms are simply one way to view a graphic analysis of the color information in an image. The problem with histograms is there is no single OBJECTIVE STANDARD for color that can depicted in a histogram.

IOW, there is no such thing as "correct color" that applies to EVERY image, EVERY scene, so in that sense, histograms are very limited in how much they can help you because there is not one single histogram that is always correct.

To me, it's much better (and easier) to simply adjust color and look at my monitor to see what looks better. BTW, color casts are not always bad...

If I were you, I wouldn't sweat it if I didn't get what that post was about, other than the fact that Joe D goes to great lengths to point out what wrong with someone's shot, but then doesn't have the courtesy to help them fix it...

[another view]

my photos wouldn't belong here

No, Lara - they DO belong here. I hope that there aren't a bunch of lurkers that think this way too, but just aren't saying so! Photographyreview.com is the most laid back, ego free site for photography out there. There will always be the occasional exception, but on other sites it's very common. I spend most of my time here because of this attitude. Those people don't tend to stick around too long anyway - there have been others and will be more. Just like real life - sometimes you only learn how NOT to be from some people.

I know what I know and am happy to help people when I can. There are also a lot of things I don't know, and am thankful for the help of others. I've learned a lot here, used that knowledge in my own photography, and feel comfortable passing that knowledge on to others.

I've also posted some shots that I like but don't go over too well - and some I'm not sure of that I've gotten nice compliments on. Bottom line is - the more you shoot, the more you'll improve. So - where are the shots?? OK, when you're comfortable with it...

[Mig]

Lara,

Everyone's posts belong here. To me the problem with that thread is not that the person didn't understand what was wrong with their picture or how to correct it after being shown a histogram, the problem was that the response to the orignal poster not understanding the historgram came off very badly. There was no reason for the way the second response was presented. None at all.

Thankfully, in all the years I've been participating on this forum, incidents like this are few and far between. PJ has made it clear that critiques should be constructive, not belittling. I would personally love to see you start posting!

Danielle

[Liz]

Hi Lara and Nat........

As you know, the forums are for everyone, always have been - from beginners to pros. I came to PR before I ever owned a camera to ask what P&S to buy. Many people suggested I try an SLR since I was so "enthusiastic" about photography. I did - 4 years ago - and I'm still here. I asked some really STUPID questions, but was informed that no question is stupid. So, Lara, PLEASE listen up. Don't ever be afraid to ask a question or be afraid you might get a negative comment. It happens.....yes, but that's ok too - it's toughened my "sensitive" skin more than once!

Negative comments - sometimes people react to each other, or to the subject in the post. Sometimes, it's simply someone's "gruff" personality. As PJ has said many times, these things usually work themselves out. Other posters usually will help to "calm" a situation/person. Sometimes the moderators do need to step in, but 99% of the time it all works out. However, if it crosses the line into a thread of personal attacks, the moderator should certainly step in.

Hope this helps. ;)

Liz

[Lara]

Thanks Steve M, Danielle and Liz.

I'm not sure how Natalie felt about that post. I may have gone off on a different track.

As you know, I've been helping out with moderating here, just to get you guys started, but ended up totally entranced by the photography and the wonderful people. Once I'm back on my feet, I really want to give it a go.

I can take criticism, but not in the way it was given in the earlier post mentioned by Nat. My point being, if you are completely new to photography, you the need the patience and constructive criticism of people, not an, "in your face" comment.

BTW, I would never expect that to happen from the people I've come to know here. This one took me by surprise and I did find it discouraging.
It's nice to see that there are so many willing to give support to complete novices.

[natatbeach]

I don't get so I though there might be something more exciting in store for me to learn than the tried and true "looking at the monitor and give it a go with the different tools" method...

I just figured someone on here could naswer the question and it was and I'm glad and order has been restored to the universe.

this forum has always had people that want to help others learn and I was stumped at the lack there of in the post so I figured I'd repost to get the answers I need to understand. And Lara....fear schmear... tell ya what you start posting and I'll post some of the shots I'm afraid to post to really learn

the really bad ones that I wouldn't even show my mother so that we can all learn together. Even Steve my learn a thing or too ( doubt it ---he's kinda smart)

thanks for the info and responses guys...later.

[kamboura]

Lara,
One word of advise from a total newbie (and also to echo everyone else's comments). I got the guts to post my pictures here, and just to give you an idea about me... I am an engineer, who has always had a super technical job. Before taking pictures, the most creative work I had ever done, was trying to balance the colour of ketchup and mustard on my burgers !!... 99% of the replies you will get will be constructive. The 1% may not be, and I usually find that this is caused by how difficult it is to express one self in this medium without eye contact, without body gestures.
I really like these forums, I think very highly of all the opinions that I read on it. All the regulars here are nice people and very talented (specially the ones with the scary avatar icons !!)

[Lara]

Thanks much for your input. I feel the same about the members here. I just get put aback when I read posts that tend to be judgemental rather than constructively critical.
I'm still toying with which camera to get. It will be digital, that's about the only definite decision I have made.

Big smiles regarding the "ones with scary avatars." One has helped me feel very welcomed here. Another I haven't had the pleasure of having a conversation with, but both are very talented people. I'd trust their critique any day!

As far as I'm concerned, this is the BEST photography site on the web. I may be a little prejudice, but it's a very true and honest opinion! ;) (love your signature)

[Liz]

get a Canon........

Liz

"I'm still toying with which camera to get. It will be digital, that's about the only definite decision I have made."

[Lara]

LOL Liz!

Lemme tell you, I'm very impressed with the shots you've taken with your Rebel. But I think I'll need to graduate to at least novice before putting that much cash into it.

[kamboura]

Hi Lara,
if you want a recommendation on which digital camera to buy as a beginner, give me a private message, I am very well read in the subject (translation: I have nothing better to do than regularly read camera review websites). Of course I can share my recommendation here, but I don't want to start a riot.

[Peter_AUS]

Lara,

One persons comments out of the vast number you see here on these forums is a pimple on the backside of our existance. Usually people who post such stupid comments either, buckle under the weight of the regulars, who are respected here, (I weigh in just under 100Kgs at present), and realise their mistakes in condesending, arrogant, stupid statements being made like, "I'm not here to teach you Photoshop".

Of course there are poeple here, only to happy to impart knowledge to others, just like you help with the Computing Forums, as I do as well.

The mistake this person has shown, is his total lack of understanding of the force of this community and the people who partake in it.

Don't worry, take your photos, post them, buy a decent camera and a couple of good lenses and you will enjoy the art of "Capturing Light as you see it". That is what I try and do, and so do many others who post here regularly.

Forums, as I have said before many times, are a fluid system of ideas, feelings, sight and insightfullness, leading to the nurchering, growth and fullfillment of ourselves within the community.

Yes it is hard to sometimes get the feeling that a person is trying to relate to others, by no eye contact, voice inflection, body language etc, but as one reads replies on a regular basis, one tends to read between the lines of the writings and see the person for who and what they are.

Real, Genuine people tend to stand out in crowds and always will, not necessarily by there total involvement, but often by their ability to see what others sometimes aren't able to, and direct things in a way that is comforting, caring and covert in a way.

You know who to look to for advice, help and understanding and would look at those people long before you would look at an idiot like that person is being.

Take care and keep embrassing this wonderful community like you have.

[Lara]

Thanks Boram and Peter! Wow, it's so nice of you and everyone else who has taken time to comment and reassure. I really can't wait to get the camera that will suit me and start shooting. I'm sure a lot of people are sick of reading my excuses for not beginning yet. But it's tough for me to get started with this back problem. I truly want to begin this journey into photography, and promise that I will, as soon I am able!

I have been given a few suggestions on what to start with, but will be most grateful for any ideas. Boram, expect a pm ;)

Thank you all.

[Peter_AUS]

Hi Lara,
if you want a recommendation on which digital camera to buy as a beginner, give me a private message, I am very well read in the subject (translation: I have nothing better to do than regularly read camera review websites). Of course I can share my recommendation here, but I don't want to start a riot.

kamboura,


Post your ideas here, there usually isn't much rioting that goes on in these forums as most of the people here are pretty level headed.

I personally like Canon DSLR's and others I know personally like Nikon Gear. Depends on what you first purchased in a way.

[Peter_AUS]

Lara,

I totally understand about back problems, as I have a major issue with my back (put me out of work) and has been quite sore the past fews weeks to the point of having to take stronger medications. Has settled a little but still gets me right in the lower left lumbar and left leg.

Before you make any major purchases on camera equipment, please post in the forum and get some replies, especially prices etc and what people feel about what you are looking at. I certainly have done in the past and do when unsure and take on board what others comment on.

I think the virus I got has gone off the computer, hence why I haven't been posting anything last few days because of that. Thanks again for the help and links you supplied in computing forums.

[Lara]

Sounds like we both have the same type back problem Peter. I've been out of work at the schools since February. I worked in pain for 3 months before that.

Definitely, when I'm ready to buy, I will post my ideas and be very interested in people's opinions I need all help I can get!

Glad to hear you were able to get that virus off your computer. Fingers crossed

Thanks so much.
~Lara

[kkraczek]

Sounds like we both have the same type back problem Peter. I've been out of work at the schools since February. I worked in pain for 3 months before that.

Definitely, when I'm ready to buy, I will post my ideas and be very interested in people's opinions I need all help I can get!

Glad to hear you were able to get that virus off your computer. Fingers crossed

Thanks so much.
~Lara

Hey Lara, just wanted to mention that you are not alone in your fear. ;) So, please don't let it prevent you from learning from some of the greatest teachers around! I can't wait to see your first photos!

[Lara]

Thanks Kristin! I learn things daily from reading the posts here. I'll learn so much more when I'm finally able to put what I've learned to task ;)

[pnd1]

Hi, Lara,

I teach photographic communication to both amateurs and professionals. I find that my students almost always fear "failure," and are easily intimidated by the technical factors involved in this medium. I always tell them to just jump in and play with images. There is no right or wrong way to make a picture. Your photographs are yours, and yours alone -- and you can share them with others as a gift, not an obligation.

You don't need to know a lot of technical stuff to make images that will please you. A histogram, for example, can be a useful tool for analyzing your exposure, but you don't need to understand how a histogram works in order to make expressive images.

What you must have, however, is passion for this medium. You really have to care about what you are expressing with your pictures -- or else photography becomes nothing but an exercise in mechanics.

There is no such thing as "failure" -- if a photo does not meet your goals, you can turn it in to a positive factor by learning from it, and using it to come ever closer to your goals.

You will also find that digital photography makes learning photography much easier -- each image gives you instant feedback -- a step on a creative journey. Guilt free photography -- shoot to your heart's content, and its all free!

Forums such as this one can be very helpful to you -- there are a lot of people here that seem willing and ready to help you, including myself.
Just be sure to place your emphasis on the creative side, not the technical side. An expensive camera is not a prerequisite for expression. If you have curiosity, enthusiasm, and hunger for discovery, expression will come, and come quickly.

Be sure to check out my instructional galleries on pbase at www.pbase.com/pnd1. Although they are geared to travel photography,they will acquaint you with many approaches you can apply to your own imagery.

So jump in when you are ready. And ignore the techno-babble that some may use to impress others with their scientific knowledge. Technical knowledge can be useful, to be sure, but it is not the most important factor in photographic expression. Enjoy photography on your own terms, Lara. Use it to express how you feel about what you see. I look forward to seeing your experiments in learning, and welcome any questions you might have for me.

Good luck,

Phil Douglis

[Lara]

Thank you Phil. These are very encouraging words indeed, and for not only me. I'm sure there are a lot of beginners out there that will read this and benefit from your wisdom. This is a wonderful post, and I thank you for the very thoughtful pm as well!

I've just begun going through your hyperlinks to your web sites. Wow! If that doesn't get the adrenaline going, nothing will ;)

[pnd1]

Thanks, Lara, for replying to my suggestions. You, and indeed, all beginners on this forum, are welcome to browse my pbase instructional galleries on expressive travel photography, leave comments, and ask questions. I'm always glad to be of help.

Phil