Loading Film

[tingorilla]

Good Day,

I was wondering if anyone on this board would be able to help me with some problems I am having with my camera. It's a Bell Howell 24mm, which takes Kodak Advantix 400 film(25EXP).

Today I loaded the camera and it counted to 1, on its digital display, I thought that it was suppose to count from zero? When I finished taking all 25 pictures my camera did not count from 25 back to zero it just made a funny grinding noise and began to flash E. Did I ruin that roll?

Also, am I loading the film incorrectly? I am very new at this so please be patient.

I hope someone can get back to me regarding this A.S.A.P.

Thanks

[Clemmie]

In the APS (Advanced Photo System) format - which is what this is - there is no way to load the film wrong, because it will only go in the camera one way. It goes in right, or not at all.

The frame counters on these, usually indicate either the next frame to be shot - or the number of frames remaining. Thus it would not be unusual for it to begin at 1.

The normal rewinding cycle at the end of the roll, is usually several seconds of a 'funny whiny grinding sound' - though they don't usually 'Flash E', which means there may be a problem. Something jammed - either the film caught on something, or a mechanical malfunction - in which case it will take a technician to retrieve the film.

Try one thing, just to be sure: try opening the film door - but don't force it. It's possible the roll rewound normally and is ready to pop out intact. But if the film door won't pop open freely, then the film is still extended from the cartridge, and caught up in the works. Repair shop time.

[tingorilla]

Thank you for your response. I put that roll in yesterday for processing and I am really hoping that they came out ok.

With my camera I have noticed a few features that I am not sure how to use. When I press the mode button there is a eye that appears on the LCD display what is this for? I took a set of pictures last week of a local nature trail here in my community and they came out just find(my father loaded the camera for me that time, LOL). I took these with the flash on because it was such a dismal day. What is this eye for? Also is it posible that my camera's lens has to be turned off to load the film correnctly?

Please respond A.S.A.P

Thank you very much for helping me!

[another view]

I didn't respond before because I'm not very familiar with APS, but I always thought it was just a matter of dropping in the film and the camera does the rest. Apparently thats how it's supposed to work .

The eye could be for red-eye reduction with the built in flash. If that's the case, it will probably fire a couple of short flashes before the camera takes the picture. BTW, one standard thing to try if a camera is acting up is to take the batteries out, let it sit for a few minutes, then put in brand new ones. That will fix a lot of problems!

[tingorilla]

Thank you for your reply. So it is safe to change the batteries while the film is in the camera? Also, the one thing that I forgot to mention earlier is that yesterday when I finished that roll that I currently have in for processing, was finished it didn't count backwards like the roll I had last week did. Does this mean they did not come out?

[another view]

It is safe to change batteries while there is film in the camera, but I can't answer your other question. Maybe the lab can help you with that one if someone here doesn't have an answer.

[Clemmie]

Thank you for your reply. So it is safe to change the batteries while the film is in the camera? Also, the one thing that I forgot to mention earlier is that yesterday when I finished that roll that I currently have in for processing, was finished it didn't count backwards like the roll I had last week did. Does this mean they did not come out?

Hmmmm........

That comment about the counter not spooling back to zero on rewind - coupled with the first installment of this saga - makes me wonder if 'just possibly' the film broke off inside the camera.....a rarity, but does happen occasionally......in which case, you likely just took the lab an empty cartridge. (Yikes! Good thing they charge by number of pictures that turn out, eh?)

So, if you haven't already reloaded the camera, DON'T! Wait for the lab results on that last roll. We just might have a problem here yet!

The film counter is usually mechanically geared to the takeup spool in the camera - and they are not the hallmarks of mechanical reliability. If you get pictures back from the lab, then I'd say you have a broken counter. If it turns out the cartridge was empty, or contained only part of the roll, then your film is still trapped inside the camera.

In either case - if it's still under warranty, send it in for repair - and if it's not under warranty, it will be cheaper to junk it and get something better, as camera repairs are quite pricey.

With most APS cameras (and most cameras in general), the film comes out of the cartridge 'shot by shot' to a takeup spool in the camera, then is rewound into the cartridge as the final step.

With the APS camera that I use (Minolta's Vectis S-1), the film is all wound onto the camera spool at the time of loading, then is rewound to the film cartridge on a 'shot by shot' basis - which reduces the number of shots lost in case of a catastrophic mechanical failure (the only reason I can think of for its being 'different' in this detail). Hmmm...would also explain why my counter starts with the total number of shots on the roll and counts down...while my Maxxums start at 1 and count up - meaning I have to pay attention to which camera I'm using.

[tingorilla]

Good Morning,

I got those pictures back from the lab, most of them came out but some were ruined I noticed that they were oddly tinted with red, orange, and yellow streaks. Is that because I took those pictures on a really bad day(It was raining lightly)?

I put in a second roll to be processed, but they rewound perfectly, to the regard the camera counted backward. However, I did feel that it was counting slower than the last time, could this just be an issue with the batteries?

Also, there is this little sliding button on my camere that has three options, H, P, and C. If I slide to P, there is a rectangular scope over the lense, H is just a clear lense, and C is a big square, which is the option I tend to choose when taking pictures the most. What are all these options called, and how can I use them to get the best results?

Thanks.

[another view]

red, orange, and yellow streaks

Classic "light leak" symptoms. Sounds like you might have had a bad roll/cartridge of film because APS is supposed to wind itself in and out of the cartridge.

counting slower than the last time

Yep, batteries. Change them and it should solve that problem. I'm not sure about the "H-C-P" switch, but I think one thing about APS is that there are three different formats it can shoot in. P is probably panoramic and it would give you a frame of normal height but 2-3 times the normal length. Not sure what the others are for - anybody else? Bueller?

[tingorilla]

Thanks for your response!

So how common are light leaks? Also the pictures that I took using the P lens came about 2 or 3 times the normal length. Like you said. Also, are APS cameras really hard on batteries?

[another view]

I don't shoot APS, but I would imagine that light leaks are very rare with it by design. I have done it with 35mm by opening the back when I thought I had rewound the film (word of the day is "oops"!). Some cameras in general are harder on batteries than others. I'd always recommend carrying a spare set - or maybe even two if you're going to use it a lot.

[Clemmie]

The light leaks would be mighty unusual with APS, because of the fully enclosed nature of the film handling in the camera. So if it just happens on one roll, I would figure mishandling of the film at the lab - but if it proves habitual, then get the camera repaired or replaced.

The C H P is the three print formats that you can preselect - and each will adjust the viewfinder masking accordingly. C is the standard (3:2 ratio) 4x6 print - comparable to 35mm. H is like the new high-definition TV (16:9 ratio) and delivers 4x7 prints. P is Panoramic (3:1 ratio) and delivers 4x12 prints.

The APS film has a magnetic strip on it, on which the camera records your format choice and other information for use by the film processor.

The "H" format frame (4x7 prints) is what is actually recorded on the film, regardless of your framing choice. Your choice is recorded on the magnetic strip, instructing the machinery to mask a portion of the negative for the C or P size prints. Watch how the viewfinder masking changes as you switch among the three settings, and you'll understand that better. If you later decide you want a different format from what you originally selected, the lab can override the original setting and print in any of the three formats.

[tingorilla]

Thank you sir, you have been alot of help.

When you say that the C option is comparable to 35MM, can you give me an idea of how close it is? Basically is it portfolio quality? Also do you know if I can load the 800 film in this camera, and what about the 40 exposures? Could this camera take that as well?

What would I need to process this film on my own? Is there a piece of equiptment that I would have to purchase and what would it cost? Or would I have to use a home dark room(which I would need some tips on building, but I guess that's another thread, LOL)?

Again I would like to thank you for all the help.

[92135011]

At one time, many point and shoots were changing to this way of film, saying how it would make conventional film obsolete because of all the wonderful things you could do with APS (basically changing film in middle of rolls only).

Dont see much advertising for this film anymore

[SmartWombat]

APS usually winds the whole film into the camera, then as each photo is taken winds the film back into the cassette. It's possible to do it like 35mm, where the film goes into the camera after each photo, it doesn't have to be either way.
You can tell which you've got by the time it takes to load a film. After you shut the film door, does the camera whirr for a long time while it winds the whole film into the camera, or does it only whirr a bit?
Again when unloading the film, does it whirr for a short time (less than when loading) because the film is already in the cassette, or does it whirr for ages (longer then when loading) because the film is still in the camera?


All APS cameras can take 25 or 40 shot films, you should have no trouble there.


The CHP letters describe how the image is printed.
C : means "conventional" or 3:2 ratio - it clips the sides of your negative
H : I think means "HDTV" and prints the full size of your negative
P : means "panoramic" - it clips top and bottom and prints a thin strip from the middle of your negative.

Usually P means they enlarge the image more, so you will see more grain.
I always use the H setting on my APS cameras.


Your red/orange/yellow streaks are classic symptoms of light leaks, and I would never expect to see them on an APS film.

Normally APS cameras don't have backs that open like 35mm cameras, they have a little door into which you slip the cassette. Most light leaks on 35mm are through the back. On an old camera with a bent back (like my old Zenit-E) or by opening it when there is a film loaded, like I did on my OP-10 last month.

You also get light leaks from the opening in the 35mm cassette, despite the fluffy seals that are meant to keep light and dust out. But on an APS cassette there is a little rotating door that seals the casette and so that shoudln't leak either.

Most metal 35mm cassettes have end caps that just clip over the bent metal of the body, if you squeeze the cassette then it's possible to drop the end cap off and have all the film and the spool it's wound on come out. APS just doesn't do that.

So I think you had an unusual problem!



Processing your own APS film is tricky. Remember that mechanical door on the film cassette? You'd have to get that open first. Then get the film out (in the dark!) and cut it off the cassette.
35mm is easier, because you can just squeeze, pull off the end and then pull the film roll out.
There's a potential problem for anyone reprinting APS, because the commercial machines are set up to put the exposed film back in the cassette to protect the negatives - and to set the exposure state on the cassette to developed.
Also I have no idea what gets put on the magnetic stripe during processing, but there may be expected to be information on there.

During printing the information written by the camera is used, for example the CHP setting is per-frame and recorded on the stripe. Some cameras write exposure information there as well, to aid the printing.

A far cry from simple 35mm film