I need a secret weapon

[Outdoorsman]

I need a lens. I've been looking for something with a 300mm or better capability (zoom/prime doesn't matter) that will AF with my 2X converter for shooting surfing (sports action). I cannot afford to enter the Arena of Pro Glass, but I want to at least stand on the sidelines with a monopod and get some good shots.
How much do I have to spend to get a fast enough lens that will AF accurately and quickly without breaking the bank or selling my car? What brand/model? The 2X TC means f/5.6 or better working aperture, or AF is no dice. My budget is less than $1000 but under certain circumstances I might consider finding a way to finance something a little more spendy.
Basically I'm asking for a Secret Weapon. The Bat Lens, so to speak.
"Robin, look! Surfers shredding the sick sets at the beach! Quick, get the Bat Lens! These wicked waveriders won't get away with being unphotographed for long!"
"Holy F-stop, Batman! That guy just did a 360 and his buddy just pulled into a gnarly tube!"
"That's right Robin, even grommets can get barreled and smack the lip if they need to. All we can do is take as many shots as possible and hope they invite the photog to a party afterward. You can stay home and help Alfred dust the Hall of Statues in the East Wing again."
"But Bruce-!"
"No, Robin, I'll be all right- I have do do this alone. It is the duty of a sworn crime-fighter."
"Gosh, Batman, you're a true American Hero."
"I know, Robin. I know."

[petemac]

I am wondering what converter you have....if i remember right the canon ones can only be used with certain glass? By the way, i didn't think I had the money for pro glass either, or a 10D. I still managed to earn back the purchasing price in 6 months with a fashion shoot, some singing groups, and a lot of weddings. You might consider that as a financing method.

-pete

[another view]

I think you'll need f5.6 including the TC to get reliable AF, which would mean a 300 f2.8. Some of the used 3rd party lenses are in the $12-1500 range but I can't make a recommendation. A friend has the Tokina 300 f2.8 with the 2xTC and is happy with it but he's not a sports shooter.

[JBlake]

I see this question alot, and I have to agree wit the advice given to me by pro sports shooters when I started out. I said I could not afford the glass I needed at the time, and they said then wait until you can, or rent it. All of them told stories of some pretty expensive paperweights, i.e. glass that was cheaper than their need called for. And yes, I have one also, because I didn't heed their advice. The end result is that my current kit cost and additional 1,000.00 because of that poor purchase.

So... if you NEED it for spare occasions, rent it. If you NEED it for frequent occasions, work your tail off to get exactly what you NEED.

If you'll look at what glass the pro shooters are using for your particular sport, you'll get an idea of the requirements.

Hope this helps, and I hope you avoid owning an expensive paperweight.

Joe.

[Lionheart]

I second all the recommendations here. You don't want to be stacking ANY 2x converter on anything but fast pro glass (f2.8 or faster) and hope to get AF and good image quality. I've stacked my Canon EF 2x on the 100-400 f3.5-5.6, and goodbye reliable autofocus, especially for sports, not to mention image softness. Just my 2 cents.

[Outdoorsman]

All right, here's the deal.
1) I know exactly what I need to shoot like the pros. I need the Canon 600mm f/4 IS with the appropriate filters and converter. This will cost thousands. Check prices- you'll see why I do not own one. This is the lens that the pro surf photographers use when shooting from the beach. There are many pro surfers who will not even bother to get in the water unless they know there is a photog with a 600 on the beach. And with the converter, a 1200mm f/8 lens cannot be beat. I simply cannot afford this. I dream of one day owning a 600, but not now. Not for a while.
2) I'm practically on call for shooting surfing right now. I only shoot a couple of guys who know me, but hope to be in business very soon doing surf photography for money on a weekly basis. The winter swells are coming up here, and the surf will be good every week. Renting a lens is not an option. I need my own lens. I cannot even rent a lens within 100 miles of here anyway. I've checked. No lenses for rent of any kind/focal length/make/model size/speed/etc.
3) I use a 70-300 4-5.6. It does AF just fine except when the camera is set to servo, but I know how to make it AF with decent reliablility. Not pefect by any means, but at least I can get it to stay fairly locked on if I pick the right AF point for the moment. It still ends up shooting soft a lot, and I've missed a few shots, but yeah, I need something a little faster to have AF function like normal.
4) I am getting a bit of a reputation in this town (VERY small town) as a decent photog. I'm not trying to get famous or make a jillion bucks. But people are asking about getting sports action pics of their little kids and such. If I'm going to accept any jobs/work I can't be out there with a crappy lens on my nice camera with good film and expect people to be happy with the results. I won't even accept this kind of work until I know I can produce reliable results. The surfers know I'm just as broke as them and that I'm pretty new and not set up to do what the pros do. They understand that I might not get all the shots we want. But I don't want to make excuses to paying customers. The surfers only pay for shots I bring them (ones I know are good enough- I don't bother them with the 35 other bad shots on the roll)

I know what I need: I need a fast 300/400. But is there a shortcut of some kind, an inexpesive way to get good results? Or am I dreaming? I cannot afford to buy a $5000 lens. I can barely afford $500 or $600, but if there is cause, I might be able to do something a little more spendy, as I've said previously.
Thanks for all the help so far- I really appreciate it! I hope this extra info helps...

[Lionheart]

Canon EF 400mm f5.6L USM about 1000 bucks and change. With a 2x it is 800 f11.
On a 20D it is a 640mm f5.6. So splurge on the 20D or get a used 10D and get the added effect of the 1.6 crop factor without losing a stop ;)

[another view]

Couple of thoughts - I can appreciate your position, so can a lot of photographers... ;)

Tokina used to make a 400 f5.6 prime that can be had for $250 or so. It's a sharp lens and Moose Peterson used to swear by it for handheld shots of birds. I've used it and been impressed with it, but don't own it. What I shot with it wasn't moving so I didn't really pay much attention to AF speed - but don't remember it being bad either. Heard of some compatibility problems with newer cameras but supposedly it is an easy fix. You might want to call Tokina and ask if it will work with whatever body you're using it with. For the record, my Fuji S2 (Nikon N80 body) works fine with it.

I'm thinking too that a used 10D with this lens would be in about your price range and be an equivalent ~ 600 f5.6. With a camera like that, you could still crop quite a bit (for an even narrower angle) and get a great 8x10, too.

[paulnj]

Canon EF 400mm f5.6L USM about 1000 bucks and change. With a 2x it is 800 f11.
On a 20D it is a 640mm f5.6. So splurge on the 20D or get a used 10D and get the added effect of the 1.6 crop factor without losing a stop ;)

Yes!! A CANON 400F5.6 is a VERY SHARP FAST LENS!!!!

and as another view mentioned the tokina ATX 400f5.6 is a very high quality lens for the 200-400 dollar used price!

I own the tokina in Nikon and have shoot the canon many times....... Both are serious considerations in my mind.

If you can swing a canon 400...DO IT, If you want to SAVE for a FAST PRIME.... the tokina will be sharp and somewhat fast in focus to hold you through the season

These are MY OPINION ONLY though ;)