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  1. #1
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    Purchase questions (beginner)

    So I've been looking at the 400D for a long time now and I think it's time to buy. Now I found the body alone for $279 but I also keep finding these links i.e.USA Photo Nation(click link for example) with packaged deals that include like: 28-30mm f/3.8-5.6 lenses and 1GB memory card, screen protectors, "card readers/ keepers?", Cleaning kits etc..

    So my question is.. do you think its worth the extra $200+ to buy the goodies along with the body? Or should I just look around for a lens I want along with the body? What do you guys use to clean your cameras? Is $279 good for body only?

    Now my lens questions, here's what I want:

    -Fast burst shot capability.
    -Some decent zoom.
    -Not too pricey let's keep it under say..$300.
    -"walk around lens"
    -good for beginners
    -Auto/manual focus.
    -Quality, of course.

    What should I look for?
    I like to take action/sports shots along with the random spirited shots. (I go to the track a lot too.)
    Is it true that "fixed glass" is better quality? I wouldn't mind a fixed wide angle maybe? Input?


    Also, what else should I purchase with the Body if those packages are a rip? Like a CF card? Carrying case? What other things should I have with my camera?

    Sorry so many questions, I've been reading around for a while and this is probably one of the better photo forums i've been too. Thanks for your expertise help in advanced!
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  2. #2
    Powder River Imaging EOSThree's Avatar
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    OK. First of all, if it sounds to good to be true...

    Photo Nation doesn't exactly have stellar ratings. Always check your e-tailer at Resellerratings. Check your prices at a decent e-tailer here is a link compiled by a regular poster over at DCRP. The price will be higher, but good luck trying to actually get the camera at the advertised price at USA Photo nation.

    -Fast burst shot capability.
    Not a function of the lens, this is a function of your body.
    -Some decent zoom.
    I am not sure what you mean here, zoom and telephoto are two different things. Zoom is the range of the lens, ie. 17-70, Telephoto is basically length(magnification)any focal length over about 35mm is considered telephoto on a crop body.
    -Not too pricey let's keep it under say..$300.
    That's a pretty tight budget, there are some decent lenses near that price range: the Canon 28-105 USM II immediately comes to mind. Decently sharp, OK range(not very wide, but workable), over all a decent lens. Not exactly what I would use for "sports" though. You should be looking for a zoom lens that is fast(f/2.8, although this means expensive)and fairly long(ie 200mm or longer).
    -"walk around lens"
    The 28-105 will work ok for a walk around lens, like I said above it's lacking in wide angle.
    -good for beginners
    Fine for beginners
    -Auto/manual focus.
    Most EOS lenses are both AF and MF
    -Quality, of course.
    See above.
    Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal. --Ernie Gann--
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde--

  3. #3
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    How about this place? http://www.bestpricecameras.com/prod...?prodid=713192
    I called but their customer service lines were down.

    Is the 400D a "slow" body? Could I find a 20D (used) cheaper (is that faster?)? Would you recommend a wide angle as a walk around lens?

    Thank you for the information EOSThree. If I can get the body for fairly cheap, I will spend more on my glass. Thanks again, I'll check your links out.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  4. #4
    Powder River Imaging EOSThree's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Your search for a bargain is admirable, but in reality it costs a certain amount for the retailer to buy the camera, then the retailer needs to make a certain amount of profit. Bestpricecameras is even worse than USAphotonation. The best price is usually in the range of what you'll see from B&H, they are the best as far as service. I have had good luck with Buydig, check out the link at DCRP: it's comprehensive, I personally would only shop the top 10 and mainly the top 4.

    If I were you I'd look at a Rebel XT kit and spend what's left on a mid telephoto lens, that will be a good starter kit. Buydig has the XT kit for under $560, it's a great camera and does 95% of what the XTi can do. The kit lens isn't the best, but it is better than a lot of the lenses you'll find on a Point and Shoot camera. If you really want improved ergonomics the 20D or 30D are better, but the photo quality is pretty much exactly the same, if it comes down to better ergonomics or better photo quality I'll take the photo quality every time.
    Don't get caught up thinking you need the newest body with the most MP, mostly what more MP is doing is causing a noisier sensor that requires a stronger engine to remove the noise. I have found 6mp to be plenty for most everything I do. I am still very happy with the output of my 10D.

    Is it a slow body? I am assuming you mean fps(frames per second)The XT shoots 2.8fps@ 14 jpgs, the XTi 3.0fps@27 jpgs, and the 20D 5fps@23 jpgs. The XTi is only slightly faster than the XT and the 20D is faster than either of them.

    As far as a walk around, I buck the usual trend(WA)and like a mid range lens like the 28-105 usm II.
    Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal. --Ernie Gann--
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde--

  5. #5
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Ah thank you! I just checked the price on the 10D on 20D they're both around $1500 new correct? B&H seems to be the best place unless I can find a specialty shop around.

    When I get the body, will it come with a CF card and batteries etc..what other things are needed? carrying case?

    I know that MP isn't everything and can be more of a hassle. I like the Xti because it is an entry level camera, seems the most affordable.

    oh and i appologize, but what does usm II mean?
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  6. #6
    Powder River Imaging EOSThree's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    When I get the body, will it come with a CF card and batteries etc..what other things are needed? carrying case?
    Nope, it comes with battery, charger, and software. The CF card and case are up to you. USM=Ultrasonic motor II.
    Buydig still has some new 20Ds for under $900.
    I just recently bought an XT from them, and seriously debated the 20D, I went for the compact size of the XT.
    Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal. --Ernie Gann--
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde--

  7. #7
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Wow I see. Why such a huge gap in price between the XT(i) and the 20/30D?

    I was recommended to buy a 30D along with a 17-50mm WA lens. Here I'll quote what he said:
    " I highly recommend my original setup, which was my 30D and my Tamron 17-50. Great camera, and a great walkaround lens. Total will run you $1400. In a month, youll forget you spent an extra $300, but you wont forget what is hanging off your neck. Believe me, do it right the first time. Stay away from kits. Look at my older posts, I was just like you.

    As for CF cards, get an 8gig Transcend card from Newegg, and call it a day."

    From a photographer on a car forum I participate in.

    So you shoot with an XT? or a 10D? How long ago did you start shooting?

    Is the 20D/30D that much bigger than a 350/400D?
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  8. #8
    Powder River Imaging EOSThree's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Quote Originally Posted by ALaS
    Wow I see. Why such a huge gap in price between the XT(i) and the 20/30D?

    I was recommended to buy a 30D along with a 17-50mm WA lens. Here I'll quote what he said:
    " I highly recommend my original setup, which was my 30D and my Tamron 17-50. Great camera, and a great walkaround lens. Total will run you $1400. In a month, youll forget you spent an extra $300, but you wont forget what is hanging off your neck. Believe me, do it right the first time. Stay away from kits. Look at my older posts, I was just like you.

    As for CF cards, get an 8gig Transcend card from Newegg, and call it a day."

    From a photographer on a car forum I participate in.

    So you shoot with an XT? or a 10D? How long ago did you start shooting?

    Is the 20D/30D that much bigger than a 350/400D?
    The XT/XTi are being marketed as entry level cameras, they also have composite bodies rather than magnesium bodies. I think a lot comes from the XT/XTi are marketed as an entry level camera and the price reflects that. The XT and XTi can do about 90-95% of what the big boys can do.

    If you are going to stay away from the kit lens then I recommend something along the lines of the Tamron mentioned, at least for range. I like my 17-40 f/4L on my 10D. There are a lot better lenses out there than the kit lens, and if my budget were tight I would step back on my body and get a better lens. This site and Photozone have pretty good lens reviews and would be a place to start research. This optical aid from Tamron will give you an idea what to expect from different focal lengths.

    CF Cards. I wouldn't recommend getting one huge card like that. 2 smaller cards are better, with only one card you are putting all of your eggs in one basket. What if something happens to your lone card? Now where are you? 2 or 3 2gig cards or so should do you fine to start.

    I have an XT I just purchased and a 10D also. Right now I am using the XT at work
    (airplane) and the 10D everywhere else. I have to get the tripod plate to fit my XT and it will go in my bag along with the 10D. The 10D will have my 12-24 or 17-40 mounted and the XT will carry my 80-200 or 300. All of the shots in my gallery are with a 10D. I started shooting in grade school when I was given a 110 instamatic camera for my 12th birthday. I won't tell you how long ago that was, but the 110 will give you some idea.

    I would guess the 10/20/30D is about 1/3 bigger than the XT/XTi. It's nice to have the size and ease of controls on the larger body. I was space(and price)conscious when I bought the XT, I thought it was a bargain when I bought it, and I still do, an 8mp body that accepts all of my current lenses for under $500 shipped! I haven't shot too much with it lately as work has slowed, but when I get back to the lower 48(tomorrow)I will give it a workout.

    These were taken with the Rebel XT:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Purchase questions (beginner)-img_0047.jpg   Purchase questions (beginner)-img_0071.jpg   Purchase questions (beginner)-img_0073.jpg  
    Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal. --Ernie Gann--
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde--

  9. #9
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Those are great pictures! I know that those entry level boys can do what the big boys can. Which is why I don't think I need to step into the expensive bodies quite yet. Maybe it would benefit me in the long run to, but as of now I don't really see the need to spend that much on the body. I would rather focus on getting good glass. I'm going to do some lens research and see what I come up with. As for now, I'm on the market for the XT/XTi. Most likely the XTi, I like the fact of an integrated cleaning system. I'd spend an extra bill for that if it really works well.

    Great pictures again! So detailed! What lens was it shot with?
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  10. #10
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Also is a 17-50 lens a good WA lens for everyday use?
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  11. #11
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    What does a Higher ISO mean?

    Edit: nvm found it out.
    Last edited by ALaS; 08-03-2007 at 02:26 AM.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  12. #12
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Should I consider buying a 20D? Would that be a better camera to start out with?
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  13. #13
    project forum co-moderator Frog's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    I won't advise you on what to buy but stay away from photonation or bestprice. See the camera dealer feedback forum.
    The good dealers won't have unbelievable prices but you'll get honesty and service and won't have to spend a few hundred dollars for a battery for a grey market camera.
    There are also good dealers on ebay but be sure to check for authorized dealers with manufacturers warranty. Again, they won't be cheapest but will be honest. Don't do the package deals though as you can get better stuff for same or less than what's in their packages.
    Keep Shooting!

    CHECK OUT THE PHOTO PROJECT FORUM
    http://forums.photographyreview.com/...splay.php?f=34

    Please refrain from editing my photos without asking.

  14. #14
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Thanks Frog. I've been looking around for a good walk around lens (possibly used) it's between the Tamron 17-50mm and the Tamron 28-70mm. Anyone have any input on these lenses?
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  15. #15
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Hi,

    I'm a beginner. I'd just like to let you know the route I took....

    I bought a used Pentax *ist DL from Amazon with the 18-55mm kit lens for $350. It had all of the boxes and accessories and was in really nice shape. This is my first dslr. Previous cameras were a 2mpix Kodax easyshare and last year I stepped up to a used Minolta Dimage A1 that I bought off of eBay. I took some good pics with the point and shoot, but really liked the A1's flexibility as far as manual settings and zoom, but I wanted a little more and being not very rich, I bought the used Pentax. I really like it. Last week I bought a used Tamron 28-200mm lens from Keh.com. It was classed as a bargain with their grading and I bought it for $45 plus shipping. I have no affiliation with Keh.com, but their shipping was prompt and the lens I recieved is really nice and works well. In the future, I want to buy a Pentax K10D but I need to learn a bit more with the DL. The K10D seems to be a good camera for the price. It has built in anti-shake and is weather-sealed, which could be important depending on where you are shooting.....

    Just something to think about.

    Stuart

  16. #16
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Thanks for the info.

    I just purchased a used 28-70mm lens off of fredmiranda forums. The guy hasn't e-mailed me back though so I'm a little worried.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  17. #17
    Powder River Imaging EOSThree's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    28-70 f/2.8L? That's a nice lens. Those shots were taken with the Canon 28-135 IS lens, not the sharpest of lenses, but it's lightweight and has IS. I think any camera you purchase will be fine, because you'll learn to use it. My problem of ergonomics comes from my using a 10D and then stepping back to the XT. I am getting faster and better with the XT now that I have had a chance to get used to it some.
    Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal. --Ernie Gann--
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde--

  18. #18
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    What is IS?

    And My 400D was purchased last Thursday along with a 4gb PNY CF card. My total spending was about $1007.00 A lot more than what I was expecting to pay but I believe it is money well spent. I'm still giggling for joy, and hoping it will arrive soon.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  19. #19
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    IS is "Image Stabilization". You can shoot at lower shutter speeds because the lens corrects for camera motion.
    Greg
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  20. #20
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Ah yes, I knew that.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  21. #21
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Lens came in..seems like there is dust inside.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  22. #22
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)


    got it.
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  23. #23
    Powder River Imaging EOSThree's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Congratulations on your new camera. You'll have to change your signature. What lens did you get from Fred's? Is it the 28-70 f/2.8L or the slower one? Look forward to you posting some photos.
    Rule books are paper they will not cushion a sudden meeting of stone and metal. --Ernie Gann--
    What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. --Oscar Wilde--

  24. #24
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Thank you! Sig updated. It's the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8. I got it off Fred's for a pretty decent price. I'm lovin' it so far..

    I just discovered shooting in RAW, and RAW +L (jpeg) and yeah..my card fill sup pretty darn quickly but the quality is great.

    I do suck at the editing/Photoshopping my images but I am learning as we speak. So it's all good I think.

    Got any tips or pointers I could use? I'm pretty much trying to limit myself to using the Tv and Av functions until I understand the functions better.. Like understanding my situation and lighting and adjusting to it. What do you usually look for, or look at first when setting your camera before you begin to shoot?

    Thanks,
    -Ericson
    -Canon 400D

  25. #25
    DEviaNT Photographer DEvianT's Avatar
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    Re: Purchase questions (beginner)

    Best advice I'd give when starting out is buy 'Understanding Exposure' by Bryan Peterson. It's about $15, a really clear read with extensive examples throughout and will let you hit the ground running.
    D
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