Digital SLR Cameras Forum

Digital SLRs Forum Discuss digital SLRs, lenses, RAW conversion, or anything else related to digital SLRs. You may also want to see the Nikon, Canon, and Sony camera forums.
Digital Camera Pro Reviews >>
Read and Write Digital SLR Reviews >>
Digital SLR Buyer's Guide >>
Results 1 to 21 of 21
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    50

    Question Flash for Canon 20D

    I am new to this forum and I apologize if this thread has been beat to death, but my search revealed nothing to date.

    I am looking for a new flash for my Canon EOS 20D. I just recently went all digital after years of using an EOS-1 and EOS-3. My uses are primarily family/friends, outdoor fill-flash portraits, and MACRO.

    I am trying to decide between the Canon 580EX, Promaster 7500 DX, and the METZ 54-MZ-4. Price/feature wise, the METZ seems to be the best choice. However, I do not have a local dealer that stocks the METZ line so I cannot "play" with it prior to purchase.

    Does anyone have any experiences with these flashes and can make a recommendation?

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    this isn't the old PR anymore
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Branford CT, Clay NY, Ithaca NY
    Posts
    63

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    I am really far away from an expert, but i will see if i can help.

    I shoot with the canon 420 ex on my 10d and elan 7e, and have been for about 3 years. I have been in some situations where i wish i had more control over the flash. But, in situations where i just want a flash to do its thing, the 420 has been great. In terms of price v performance i think its not a bad unit. Now that i am maybe a bit more advanced i find that sometimes i want more then simple exposure compensation. If you see yourself wanting to manually set the flash exposure i think going with the 580 isnt a bad idea. They are both great units. I am not sure, but i think the 580 is the only flash that can use your camera's ETTL II metering. That might be a good thing to look into, apparenrly ETTL II can result in better exposures in tricky situations. That may tilt the scale's in the canon's favor. I think that the 580 still can wirelessly trigger a 420...a pretty cheap cual flash setup. Hope that helps.

    -pete

  3. #3
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Canon 580EX

    No problem - it's a good question, and one that hasn't even been asked yet.

    I haven't taked to anyoe who's used the new Canon flash yet. But going by 550EX flash owner experience, and because of the new ETTL-2 metering, I'd go with the 580EX. I would be very surprised if any of the Metz units can take advantage of the new Canon flash metering. I expect that the 580EX is the only shoe flash that will really work correctly with it. Of course, if you're going to do mostly manual flash exposures, then it doesn't matter. But if you want to shoot in ETTL-2 flash mode, then I think the 580EX is the right thing to do. Plus, I would assume that the 580EX has IR wireless cabality, including compatibility with the ST-E2 Transmitter.

    I think I still need to add the 580EX to the flash reviews. I'll try to get that done today. Then we should be able to get some reviews for it.
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    nowhere
    Posts
    1,908

    Re: Canon 580EX

    From the reviews and comments that I have read so far about the 580EX with the 20D, it seems like the perfect choice as it is fully utalised by the camera and allows for the X 1.6 factor of digital cameras and also the ETTL-2 as well. It is fully compatible with 550EX as well and also with the ST-E2 also.

    The only downside, it is more expensive than the 550EX is, but that is the norm with new stuff isn't it usually.

  5. #5
    this isn't the old PR anymore
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Branford CT, Clay NY, Ithaca NY
    Posts
    63

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Do either of your (john or peter) happen to know if the 580 will still allow wireless control of the 420EX? I can't seem to find anything mentioned anywhere about it. Hope it does!

    -pete

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    nowhere
    Posts
    1,908

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Pete,

    As far as I can tell from reading the reviews etc, it is the same as the 550EX just with enhancements that take into account Digital, and the new E-TTL2 features of the newer cameras. I haven't read that it doesn't control the 420EX the same as the 550EX does, I think that would have appeared very quickly if it had not been the case. As it is still a new flash and not in many hands at present, it is a little hard to make a deffinative yes or no on that. I haven't gotten one, don't need it as I don't have an E-TTL2 camera, so wouldn't be worth buying it with the investment in the 550EX I have already made.

  7. #7
    this isn't the old PR anymore
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Branford CT, Clay NY, Ithaca NY
    Posts
    63

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Quote Originally Posted by Flashram_Peter_AUS
    Pete,

    As far as I can tell from reading the reviews etc, it is the same as the 550EX just with enhancements that take into account Digital, and the new E-TTL2 features of the newer cameras. I haven't read that it doesn't control the 420EX the same as the 550EX does, I think that would have appeared very quickly if it had not been the case. As it is still a new flash and not in many hands at present, it is a little hard to make a deffinative yes or no on that. I haven't gotten one, don't need it as I don't have an E-TTL2 camera, so wouldn't be worth buying it with the investment in the 550EX I have already made.

    I can understand why you wouldn't go to the 580 if you have the 550 already. I am shooting with the 420 and it is a nice flash, but the lack of manual control gets in the way so i almost bought a 550. Then i read that the 580 is coming out and so i guess i will just wait to hear from someone who tries it to make sure that the 420 still works. I will probably get an ETTL-II camera eventually so it doesn't seem to make sense to pick up a 550. Thanks, as usual, for helping me out.
    -pete

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    nowhere
    Posts
    1,908

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Pete,

    If I didn't already have the 550EX I would deffinately get the 580EX, it is a much better flash overall, even thought I couldn't use the E-TTL2 side of it, but it would still be E-TTL on my 10D.

    Always glad to help.

  9. #9
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Wireless

    Quote Originally Posted by petemac
    Do either of your (john or peter) happen to know if the 580 will still allow wireless control of the 420EX?
    Pete-
    I couldn't find that infromation either. It seems like a big thing for Canon to leave out, so it makes me a bit nervous. But I can't imagine them introducing a new flash that doesn't allow wireless control and compatibility with the ST-E2.

    One thing I discovered when I was adding the flash to the reviews was that it also sends white balance info to the camera. That means color balance when using the flash should be better. Hopefully that means that 580EX flash photos won't be quite as cold as previous flash images. I think that's cool - errrrr - warm?
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  10. #10
    this isn't the old PR anymore
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Branford CT, Clay NY, Ithaca NY
    Posts
    63

    Re: Wireless

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo-John
    Pete-
    I couldn't find that infromation either. It seems like a big thing for Canon to leave out, so it makes me a bit nervous. But I can't imagine them introducing a new flash that doesn't allow wireless control and compatibility with the ST-E2.

    One thing I discovered when I was adding the flash to the reviews was that it also sends white balance info to the camera. That means color balance when using the flash should be better. Hopefully that means that 580EX flash photos won't be quite as cold as previous flash images. I think that's cool - errrrr - warm?
    Considering the number of aritcles and selling points that 420 compatability would generate it is suprising that they left it out. I think i will call tommorow and see if i can find out...the local shop seems to have the knowledge.

    I assume the white balance feature is an ETTL II feature? It is a logical thing to do since you know what proportion of exposure is coming from the flash with ETTL, just dont see how a non ETTL-II body could use that feature.

    lol on the cold warm thing, lets just say phat to delve back a few years and make it even more ambiguous.... :-P

    -pete

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    50

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Thanks to all for the advice. While I would really like to get the 580EX, it just isn't in teh budget right now. The METZ 54MZ-4 seems to have all the features, including "claimed" E-TTL II compatibility for about $160.00 less right now. That makes it real tempting. I guess if the performance isn't to my expectations I could sell it on E-bay....

  12. #12
    Mandinator! Mando327's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tallahasee, FL
    Posts
    65

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    I have a 20D with the 580EX. Although I haven't used other flash systems, i can say that the exposures are excellent. You also have the manual option if you don't think the auto thing works for you. In the manual, it shows a "typical" system, and the 420EX is included in there, with parenthesis saying "slave unit". Hope this helps.
    Mando

  13. #13
    this isn't the old PR anymore
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Branford CT, Clay NY, Ithaca NY
    Posts
    63

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando327
    I have a 20D with the 580EX. Although I haven't used other flash systems, i can say that the exposures are excellent. You also have the manual option if you don't think the auto thing works for you. In the manual, it shows a "typical" system, and the 420EX is included in there, with parenthesis saying "slave unit". Hope this helps.
    Mando

    Thanks mando

    Looks like i can order the 580ex after all. Now let me just kiss this paycheck goodbye.....yup AA i feel your pain on this front.

    -pete

  14. #14
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Please Post a Review

    Mando-
    I added the 580EX to the flash reviews a couple of days ago. There are no reviews yet so yours would be most welcome. Please post a review for your flash and anything else you're using. We need to everyone to post reviews, please. There's no such thing as too many

    Canon 580EX Flash Review Page >>

    Thanks for posting and thanks in advance for your reviews!
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  15. #15
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Salt Lake City, Utah, United States
    Posts
    15,422

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    AA20D-
    I'd really encourage you to look at the big picture. I don't know what your finances are really like. But I do know about buying equipment that doesn't quite cut the mustard. In the long run it costs you more. If you really can't afford the 580EX but you'd like to, think about the system you're building. Consider buying the 420 or a 550EX instead. I don't think ETTL II is a necessity. It hasn't been available until now and we've been doing fine. The thing you'll likely miss out on if you buy a Metz is the wireless capabilites. If those don't matter to you, no big deal. But if they do, it's best to start down that path now. I don't think you're really going to miss the ETTL II. But if you ever want to add a second flash, you'll be bummed then. You'll either have to buy two flashes or invest in a completely separate wireless system. It's much better to think about the system and make that investment now - even if you have to spend more than you can afford, or make a compromise on flash features.
    Photo-John

    Your reviews are the foundation of this site - Write A Review!

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    50

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Photo-John: good points and advice well considered. However, what you do not know is that I'm also on thin ice with the BOSS right now. I just dropped $1600 for the 20D (kit), now I have to upgrade the flash since my Canon 430 EZ is not compatible for TTL, and to top it off, my beloved 28-105 front focuses with this camera. All other lenses focus fine. So now, I need to consider replacing that lens also or I will have a focal length gap in my system. And I have no desires right now to add a second flash. I can't think of what I may use it for at this time. I've already received the ok to get a small studio strobe system once I have the rest of hte gear paid off. I could sell the BOSS a $300 flash easier than a $480 flash. And besides, I like to bounce flash in my basement since the ceiling is fairly low and that little supplemental flash on the Metz sure looks like it would benefit filling shadows. ;)

  17. #17
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    It depends how you use the flash unit. I have Metz at the moment and I am going to upgrade to 580EX. Metz (at least the one I have) does not support E-TTL, only TTL which requires manual control every second shot. On the other hand, do not overestimate E-TTL II, it is only uses distance information when aimed directly to the subject, therefore, not distance is used when bounced. How often do you photograph people aiming stright to them?

    The white balance information is not that usefull as well, as it will transfer it only when the flash unit detects that the battery going low and therefore the strobe temperature changes. If you use flash with complex lighting or/and as fill flash, it is not going to help. The result will be close to accurate only in flash is your main light.

    I would still recommend 580EX over any Metz unit due to the fact that it is really integrated with the camera and it is bi-directional. Not all the E-TTL features supported by Metz due to proprietary Canon E-TTL, they reverse-engeneer and not always 100% correct and not all the features.

    In general, if you do not have 550EX, go for 580EX as you will get a bit smaller unit, a bit easier to use controls on the back and a bit faster recycle and a bit more powerfull output. So, there are quite a few "bits" that make 580EX better flash vs 550EX, but there are no "wow" that will force 550EX users to run to a shop to upgrade.

  18. #18
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Winchester, UK
    Posts
    6

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    I don't suppose a 540EZ can be used as a slave for a 580, can it? I' have a 540EZ on my EOS 50E and have just bought a 20D and 580EX, so it would be handy...

  19. #19
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Stokenchurch, Bucks. UK
    Posts
    3

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Quote Originally Posted by AA20D
    I am new to this forum and I apologize if this thread has been beat to death, but my search revealed nothing to date.

    I am looking for a new flash for my Canon EOS 20D. I just recently went all digital after years of using an EOS-1 and EOS-3. My uses are primarily family/friends, outdoor fill-flash portraits, and MACRO.

    I am trying to decide between the Canon 580EX, Promaster 7500 DX, and the METZ 54-MZ-4. Price/feature wise, the METZ seems to be the best choice. However, I do not have a local dealer that stocks the METZ line so I cannot "play" with it prior to purchase.

    Does anyone have any experiences with these flashes and can make a recommendation?

    Thanks in advance.

    Hi There,

    I own a Metz 44AF4 that works just fine with my 20D. I noticed there was a point from Kotya earlier in this forum regarding there incompatability with TTL2. When I got the flash it only worked in Manual, however a quick call to Metz (Hasselblad) and confirmation that I had a gun with the wrong firmware version. I returned this to them and a replacement was back 2 days later. Now the gun works in all modes incl TTL2, even bounce in my living room is well exposed.
    Although not as powerful as the 54MZ4, like your view the price makes up for that over the Canon units.

    Tony

  20. #20
    Member Stephen Lutz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    224

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Any EX series flash will be "ETTL-II" on a 20D, correct? The ETTL-II system is internal to the camera, and has nothing to do with the flash itself. Therefore an EX series flash, 220EX, 380EX, 420EX..... etc. will all be compatible with all the flash functions of the 20D. So I understand it, anyway.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    50

    Re: Flash for Canon 20D

    Well, I was able to buy a flash for my 20D......and I listened to your advice and went with teh 580EX. I made the decision to go 580EX and started saving the pennies. Then, I noticed that Adorama dropped the price to $399.00. I had an Adorama coupon for $20.00 and with Canon's rebate of $20.00, my final price was $359.00. That was only $50.00 more than the METZ that I was looking considering. This made the decision much easier with only a $50 price difference versus the original $160.00 difference.

    I haven't had a chance to test it completely yet. It just arrived yesterday. However, I am looking forward to it. Thanks again.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Flash in Sports Photography
    By Jonnyboy in forum Sports Photography
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-06-2007, 11:14 AM
  2. Olympus D-450 flash quit working
    By Fragmentum in forum Help Files
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-06-2004, 04:13 PM
  3. Which flash for EOS 20D?
    By Mando327 in forum Digital Cameras - General
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-27-2004, 08:25 PM
  4. New Canon Flash - Speedlight 580EX - Press Release
    By Photo-John in forum Camera News & Rumors
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-20-2004, 02:25 PM
  5. Some help again! Fill Flash
    By mbeth16 in forum Help Files
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-11-2004, 11:47 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •