Digital Rebel Kit Vs. Body Only

[Dwimmerlaik]

Ok,thanks for the advice in this thread My problem: Prosumer vs DSLR
and I've pretty much decided to go with the Digital Rebel over the G5. My next question is what to do about a starter lense. I have read some comments on here that the lense that comes with the rebel kit isnt that great. Would I be better off buying the body only (Ive found it for $575) and buy a lense (I dont want to spend ALOT on one) or buy the the one with the kit lense for $644. Also they have for $729 a kit with a "New! 28-80mm Auto Focus Lens". Also, all of these come with a free tripod, case, and cleaning system.
http://www.expresscameras.com/cart/p...d=8845&start=1

Keep in mind that my main purpose is taking landscape shots, especially at night, but also great daytime shots. What do you guys think?

[yaronsh]

IMHO: Get the kit lense for those times when you want that wide angle, and get another lense to get you extra length to zoom in on those subjects. The kit lense, by all reports, does fine as a budget lense. The Canon 28-105 is considered a good all-purpose starter lense (sounds like that's what you're after). I have it, and am happy with it, except I sometimes wish for IS - see thread in Viewfinder forum - but that's not a factor for monument night shots...

Another suggestion: I looked at mail-order packages, some rather tempting, but then decided to buy at a store (Best Buy), for two reasons: (1) Some online vendors can be sketchy; (2) Digital cameras still seem to have more reliability issues than they really should at this point. You still keep hearing about all sorts of things going wrong. Easier to take the camera back to a store than ship it back to a mail-order vendor, esp. if you buy the store warranty.

- Yaron

[p220sigmans]

From most of what I've seen, get the kit lense if you are talking about the 18-55mm one. I don't have a dslr yet, but from what I've seen, this is a hard lense to beat for the price. One thing to keep in mind though is that it will only work with the D-Rebel currently.

I would also seriously reconsider where you plan to purchase. Take a look at this link http://www.photo.net/neighbor/one-subcategory?id=2 and scroll down to express camera. Not a lot of reviews, but none positive. They also have a few ratings at bizrate.com and again none positive.

Terry

[FREELANCE2004]

buy the d70.the rebel is well worth the money,but its not up with the nikon.my film cameras are all pentax,im not just a nikon freak,its a better value at the time.if nikon would make the vertical grip for the d70,it be pretty much a complete outfit.
freelance1031@aol.com
p.s. canon makes a great product,i surely dont wont to knock canon,they are at the top of the game no doubt.the elan 7n is a sweet piece for the dollar.
bye bye

[paulnj]

sorry to tell you this so bluntly.......

but yes the D70 is RATED better, but NIKON has been playing catch up for 15 years

the canon SYSTEM is far better for some(read MOST) peoples desires, eventhough NIKON'S system will get ANY PHOTOGRAPHER WITH SKILL the image they desire ;)

BTW.... I own 2 NIKON bodies and a CANON body, so I can speak of both from my point of view ;)

[Dwimmerlaik]

Ive always been kinda partial to Canon cameras, but the 650 dollars vs 1250 for the nikon makes it even easier.

So whats the difference between the stock 18-55mm lense of the kit and the 20-80mm EF lense that this place offers...?

[paulnj]

well the 18-55 basicly...

becomes a 28-90mm lens on the Drebel

while the 28-80 lens becomes a 45--128 lens! 45 mm IS WIDE for the wide angle end of a zoom!!!

[Dwimmerlaik]

what does that mean in practical terms?

[paulnj]

your vision is somewhere around the equivalent of a 50mm lens(something like 47mm or so)

so a 28-80 on the Drebel will go NO WIDER than your vision sees.

some situation NEED a wider angle (like the 28- 35 mm range) to capture the true essence of the scene.

I'm sure others could tell you about quality issues and better explain what I've said .

[Sean Dempsey]

I had the lens and sold it.

It's a cheap plastic lens with nothing special about it other than its virtual price of 100 bucks to get it with the Rebel.

The glass is just normal canon glass, and the f stops aren't anything impressive or special.

If this lens didn't come with the kit, would you buy it? I wouldn't have. This is the cheapest zoom Canon makes, and they threw it on the rebel to make new owners feel like they got something cool, in my opinion.

Now watch this drive.

[paulnj]

right you may be.......

but so is a 28-80 f3.5-f5.6 when compared to the lenses WE desire to own and use.

cheap and plasticy doesn't mean it will fall apart in NORMAL use ;)

In a perfect world we could all AFFORD to own a 16-35 L, 24-70 L, or a 70-200f2.8 L IS.... but some of us can't afford(nor do we need) a high quality L lens ;)

I do agree with your general assessment of this lens BTW, but was the image quality lacking in any way? having never even seen the 18-55 I have nothing to go on besides what others have said

hahaha. I am 1 closer to the 1000 post mark

[Dwimmerlaik]

Sean, are you talking about the 18-55mm kit lense, or the 28-80mm lense?

Is the 28-80mm a better lense?

Also, what do you think about this lense: Powershot.com EF 50mm F/1.8 II. The picture of the building on the page looks great.

[paulnj]

YOU WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND A LENS SHARPER THAN THE 50F1.8 for under 8x that amount!!!!


the 50f1.8 OF CANON AND NIKON ARE AMAZING! I haven't used the others , so I can't comment on them

I do believe Sean was speaking of the 18-55 kit lens since he did own a Dreb before getting the 10D

[Michael Fanelli]

YOU WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO FIND A LENS SHARPER THAN THE 50F1.8 for under 8x that amount!!!!
the 50f1.8 OF CANON AND NIKON ARE AMAZING!

True but it's only useful if 50mm is a focal length you really and truly like to use.

[paulnj]

VERY good point Mike!!!!

50mm is a focal length I find BORING!!

but on a Dreb it becomes an 80mm which would be more appealing to my eye as a portrait/ people lens.

[yaronsh]

An 18-55 lens on a DSLR (assuming sensor size 1.6 times smaller than a 35mm frame) essentially gives you the *feel* of a 28-80 on a 35mm film cam.

28-80 is what people are generally used to on 35mm film cams. It's a decent general-purpose range, going from mild wide-angle to mild telephoto. P&S film cams used to be around that range; now they usually go longer (e.g., 28-135). The film Rebels come with a 28-80 or 28-90 lens. DP&S cams try to mimic that range.

So, the 18-55 kit lens basically gets you started with a decent-performing lens that gives you a feel that you're probably used to. If you put a 28-80 lens on a DSLR, you lose the wide angle and would probably find yourself wishing for it.

Besides, there's nothing really special about the Canon 28-80 lens. If you go for a non-kit lens, you might as well go for a longer/better one.

- Yaron

[Sean Dempsey]

I was referring to the 18-55

The pictures were noticably below what I wanted, others might not notice. I got the 17-40L to replace it /shrug.

It just figure unless you are absolutley saving every penny to get this camera and lens, why bother with a 80 dollar zoom? It is NOT a 50mm 1.8 II, costs are similar, but that's it.

I look at the lens as the cheapest zoom canon could provide. They would have packaged the Rebel with a 50mm 1.8, but they they'd lose the market of people who want to be able to "zooooooooom" their way to photographic bliss.

There's nothing wrong with the lens, it performs and acts just like it is supposed to. The question was asked "kit or body", and I cast my vote for body. Plus, I always assume that if someone is prepared to spend 600 dollars on a camera body, saving a few more Jacksons won't hurt them, the poverty stricken rarely enter the DSLR market =D I am not saying to buy L glass from 12 to 600mm, but a wise man once told me "always spend more on your glass than on your body". An image sensor only detects what you put in front of it.

[paulnj]

RIGHT YOU ARE !!!!! BODY plus a BETTER lens would be my route too,
though the buyer can always upgrade from the 18-55 with LESS $$ loss in the resale than with the generic 28-80 ;)

and thanks for the clarification on the issues with said lens

[Michael Fanelli]

your vision is somewhere around the equivalent of a 50mm lens(something like 47mm or so)

so a 28-80 on the Drebel will go NO WIDER than your vision sees.

Not true the way you describe it. The 50mm lens has about the same perspective as a human eye. The human eye is, however, much, much wider than a 50mm lens. Two eyes together are super wide.

[paulnj]

thank you for the correction!

though, I can't relate being LEGALLY blind in one eye ;)

[Dwimmerlaik]

Ok, so what first lense do you think I should go for without breaking the bank?

[paulnj]

what do you intend to shoot? and what is breaking the bank?

mind you.... you need a card and reader and maybe a second battery for the camera too ;)

general people/kids , site seeing, vacation..... EVERYONE suggests the 28-135IS

[Dwimmerlaik]

Landscape shots, shots of buildings. I already have one shot in mind. Im going to go to Memorial Bridge at like 3AM and get a shot with a tripod from the middle of the bridge looking down onto the Lincoln memorial, Washington monumnet, and Capital building if I can fit it in the shot.

Some people, but not really my focus, I can use my p&s for that.
I already have a 512mb CF card, so that shouldent be a problem for now.

I guess Im willing to spend about 200 bucks on a good first lense, if such a thing exists.

[paulnj]

Landscape shots, shots of buildings. I already have one shot in mind. Im going to go to Memorial Bridge at like 3AM and get a shot with a tripod from the middle of the bridge looking down onto the Lincoln memorial, Washington monumnet, and Capital building if I can fit it in the shot.

Some people, but not really my focus, I can use my p&s for that.
I already have a 512mb CF card, so that shouldent be a problem for now.

I guess Im willing to spend about 200 bucks on a good first lense, if such a thing exists.

hmm... maybe the kit lens will be OK at first given your subject matter and budget? you can ALWAYS upgrade after you outgrow or need more or less FOV.

BUT...

these are a few I HEARD were good CLOSE to that price range.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=129189&is=USA

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=206434&is=USA

this is ABOVE your budget but very highly rated..

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=149629&is=USA

AND I OWN AND LOVE THIS(though people say the color rendition isn't that of the $1000 more canon 24-70L.... GUESS WHAT.. I own PS and shoot digital)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...=257911&is=REG

THE HOOD is somewhat loose fitting ON MINE, but that's not too much of a bother to me.

[yaronsh]

I'd say: If you've *never* used an SLR before, go for the kit lens, see how that range works for you, and what length you think you'd want (as well as aperture, if you're ready to think about that - probably not much of a factor for architectural photos). Go down to the bridge, take the shots, feel it out. Then decide on the next lens.

You're unlikely to find a decent Canon within $200. But you may want to look into Sigmas (Sigmae? Sigmata?).

IMHO, don't bother with the Canon 28-80. If you go down to that level, might as well get the kit lens.

From my own experience, it's really hard to make the right decisions w/o having that DSLR in your hands. Even with all the advice from others. They're not you - you have to figure out what works for you.

- Yaron