On July 8, I had my first newspaper photo.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/yankfan/Baseball/JimyWilliams.jpg

Congratulations! It looks like you really caught the pissed off coach at the peak of his action.

Congratulations! It looks like you really caught the pissed off coach at the peak of his action.

Boy, was he ever. I took a sequence of about 8 shots. It was quite a display. :p

Congratulations on being published John!!!! Great shot!

Go tighter! The story of the shot is in the faces. For news work don't be afraid to crop the hell out of it, the print quality sucks no matter what. As it stands now, there's way too much needless stuff shown. Too much empty space on the left, and needless legs. All we need here is the upper bodies. Maybe the blurry hand to show some action.

Also, do you have anything with his mouth open yelling?

Go tighter! The story of the shot is in the faces. For news work don't be afraid to crop the hell out of it, the print quality sucks no matter what. As it stands now, there's way too much needless stuff shown. Too much empty space on the left, and needless legs. All we need here is the upper bodies. Maybe the blurry hand to show some action.

Also, do you have anything with his mouth open yelling?

1. This was the shot they wanted.
2. I have another shot with his mouth open.
3. Thanks for raining on my parade.

John,

Didn't mean to "rain on your parade." If you're serious about news shooting, get used to constructive criticism. I didn't tell you your shot was crap, because it isn't, I pointed out areas where you can improve for the future. No need to get defensive.

John,

Didn't mean to "rain on your parade." If you're serious about news shooting, get used to constructive criticism. I didn't tell you your shot was crap, because it isn't, I pointed out areas where you can improve for the future. No need to get defensive.

I got defensive because I felt I needed to be. I appreciate what you're telling me, I really do. But the fact of the matter is, I don't work for a newspaper. I was approached by the newspaper because they saw the shot on the team website, and asked if they could use it. Cropping tighter on the faces would have been much more dramatic for sure, but from where I was shooting, the action was at or near the end of my range. I didn't want to crop off the feet, as I've gotten the ole "you cut the feet off" comments before. I gave them the full res file and if they chose to crop it, it was their business. Hope this clears that up. Also, it's hard not to get defensive sometimes when most of what I post gets ripped for one thing or another. I'm trying to improve, and I try to take into account what people say, but sometimes it just gets to me.

I got defensive because I felt I needed to be.

I'm blunt, but I never do it to be mean. Well, sometimes I do, but if I'm attacking you, you KNOW that I'm attacking you. If there's room for doubt, it's most likely just me being too lazy to wrap my thoughts in a chewy candy shell. ;)

Ultimately, what it comes down to is that I wrongly assumed this was an attempt on your part to go down the PJ route. I structured my initial comments with that in mind, hoping to help with future assignments. I apologize for that, I should not have read into your post more than you presented.

That being said, some thoughts if you do decide to do more paper work:

Cropping tighter on the faces would have been much more dramatic for sure, but from where I was shooting, the action was at or near the end of my range.

Don't worry about that. Most papers use 3-4 megapixel cameras and crop the images nonetheless, sometimes drastically. Newsprint resolves much less than current cameras, if you're at the end of the range and you're still not tight enoguh, crop.

I didn't want to crop off the feet, as I've gotten the ole "you cut the feet off" comments before.

Forget about what you're been told before. Most of the time, limbs are expandable. They grow back anyway. Stuff like this (PJ, sports) is about moments. Composition is important, but if you've got a great moment, that is often the deciding factor, not wether or not a foot is missing. One of my editors has a mantra when she shoots: "Action, reaction, motion, emotion." She tries to incorporate at least one into her work, and if you look at great photos they tend to support that.

I gave them the full res file and if they chose to crop it, it was their business.

That depends. A good paper will NOT crop the photographer's work, the photog is expected to send it in ready to be published. Minor color correction and conversion aside, of course. There is an understanding that the writer writes, the designer designs, and the photog is in charge of the frame. Sometimes designers forget, and then yelling and meetings ensue...

Also, it's hard not to get defensive sometimes when most of what I post gets ripped for one thing or another. I'm trying to improve, and I try to take into account what people say, but sometimes it just gets to me.

I think the most helpful thing is to develop a sense for what criticism helps you grow, and what is just noise. Learn to listen to everything but the noise. Also, you and your work are not interchangeable, an attack on one does not constitute an attack on the other. At least that's what I'v convinced myself to believe. Hey, it's kept me sane... :)

I'm blunt, but I never do it to be mean. Well, sometimes I do, but if I'm attacking you, you KNOW that I'm attacking you. If there's room for doubt, it's most likely just me being too lazy to wrap my thoughts in a chewy candy shell. ;)

Ultimately, what it comes down to is that I wrongly assumed this was an attempt on your part to go down the PJ route. I structured my initial comments with that in mind, hoping to help with future assignments. I apologize for that, I should not have read into your post more than you presented.

That being said, some thoughts if you do decide to do more paper work:



Don't worry about that. Most papers use 3-4 megapixel cameras and crop the images nonetheless, sometimes drastically. Newsprint resolves much less than current cameras, if you're at the end of the range and you're still not tight enoguh, crop.



Forget about what you're been told before. Most of the time, limbs are expandable. They grow back anyway. Stuff like this (PJ, sports) is about moments. Composition is important, but if you've got a great moment, that is often the deciding factor, not wether or not a foot is missing. One of my editors has a mantra when she shoots: "Action, reaction, motion, emotion." She tries to incorporate at least one into her work, and if you look at great photos they tend to support that.



That depends. A good paper will NOT crop the photographer's work, the photog is expected to send it in ready to be published. Minor color correction and conversion aside, of course. There is an understanding that the writer writes, the designer designs, and the photog is in charge of the frame. Sometimes designers forget, and then yelling and meetings ensue...



I think the most helpful thing is to develop a sense for what criticism helps you grow, and what is just noise. Learn to listen to everything but the noise. Also, you and your work are not interchangeable, an attack on one does not constitute an attack on the other. At least that's what I'v convinced myself to believe. Hey, it's kept me sane... :)

Yeah, I got to learn to let stuff roll off my back more. Thanks Sebastian, I will remember your tips.
John

Congrats John. If I've learned something, it is that what may not appeal to one may to another. No disrespect to sebastian in that, as I admire his work. The important thing here is that you satisfied the photo editor, in the end, it's all that matters. That person will call on you again if they are satisfied.

Also, as Sebastian stated, criticism will always be there, and perhaps a bit overwhelming at times. You can only do so much in a given time, make priorities, and work at them. You will soon get where you want to be. Last, and most importantly, do it for the right reasons, and good fortune will come. Do it for yourself, because you love it, and that love will show through, and you will be successful.

Again, congrats, and I hope you have many more.

Glad to hear you got published John!


Newsprint doesn't always look bad, it depends on the process used in addition to the original photo quality. I am amazed sometimes that the photos I submit end up looking better in print than they do on the screen. This paper though uses the newset digital printing presses available, which really helps.
As for cropping, the photo editor does that, or the sports editor, whoever is doing that days photos.

JS

As for cropping, the photo editor does that, or the sports editor, whoever is doing that days photos.

Not at any major Chicago area papers, that's all that I can speak of.

Congrats John! I wonder if PR would say no to you scanning the news paper page to show your shot in print with colums of text next to it. That would be cool to share.

Not at any major Chicago area papers, that's all that I can speak of.


I think in the 6 years I have shot for the one paper I have edited 1 or two photos a year crop wise before they got it and that was only due to their request for specific things like headshots, otherwise they prefer to do all the editing, mostly so it fits the area they have available. It's tough to deal with when the sports section is held to 2 pages daily and 3 on Saturday and they have no Sunday paper :( as they can't compete ad wise with the Star on Sundays. A few other papers I shoot for want me to edit all photos, including crop and then they lay the text out around it.

JS

John , this shot is sweet .... congrats on getting it in the paper...

Almost every shot of this type of action (coach going to argue a call with the umpires) shows the whole body .. you don't see many pics of this action with just the heads .. BODY LANGUAGE IS EVERYTHING HERE ... it looks to me like the 2 coaches are almost arguing and the umpire to the left has a smirk on his face because of it ... nice catch !!! and well done !!

Congrats John! I wonder if PR would say no to you scanning the news paper page to show your shot in print with colums of text next to it. That would be cool to share.

Well, they printed it in black and white, with a caption underneath. There wasn't any story to go with it.

Well, they printed it in black and white, with a caption underneath. There wasn't any story to go with it.

It would still be nice to see. Congrats again!

It would still be nice to see. Congrats again!

I'll try to get it scanned later.

Here's the scanned image:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/yankfan/Baseball/BCEnquirerJuly872ppi.jpg

Hmmm, I think their photo editor needs to do some cropping. The legs at the top just don't look right. I think if that wasn't there the open space would have been OK.

Congrats though John, it's been a long time coming but you finally got that first newsprint shot!

JS

Here's the scanned image:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/yankfan/Baseball/BCEnquirerJuly872ppi.jpg

It's like the icing on the cake. Good job!

Congrats on being published... I don't know what that feels like, but I can only imagine it is like getting picked first on the play gorund for the 1st time. A once in a lifetime feeling...
Again Congrats !!!!

Again, congratulations! I would like very much to be published! Great job and continue the good work! Did they give you the printing plates or do you just have a copy of the article? Make sure you either frame it or start a scrap book with all of your published work. Also, make sure you start a portfolio with nice clear copies of your published work and the dates they were published so you can show potential clients in the future.

--Dave

That's awesome! I wish many more for you.

Again, congratulations! I would like very much to be published! Great job and continue the good work! Did they give you the printing plates or do you just have a copy of the article? Make sure you either frame it or start a scrap book with all of your published work. Also, make sure you start a portfolio with nice clear copies of your published work and the dates they were published so you can show potential clients in the future.

--Dave

Thanks....I've had 4 pictures used by a baseball card company, and 9 of my shots this year are on the 2006 Southwest Michigan Devil Rays team card set, plus I've had a couple in At The Yard Magazine, but this is actually my first newspaper shot. I've also been shooting for the Greater Guide To Southwest Michigan magazine. You're right though, a portfolio would be a good idea.

Awesome, John. Congrats on gettting published.