This thrills me

[opus]

This absolutely thrills me.

New lens, EF 75-300mm f/4-5/6 IS USM.


I'm sure everybody's got a moon shot in their inventory, but I'm getting such a kick out of the fact that I can get detail like this now. Just wait till that ol' harvest moon rises!

I'll need to sharpen in ps, though.

[Peter_AUS]

At the moment the moon is up during the day here, so hard to do a comparison using the same lens from here, but I do intend to.

One thing when taking the image, use mirror lockup if you have it and use the timer, on a tripod and see what the difference is, as a comparison.

[opus]

I don't know what mirror lockup is, but I did use a tripod and a remote "shutterbutton" (forgot the technical name for it). Took IS off, on your suggestion, and bracketed for experimentation (to learn). So this one is ISO 100, f5.6, 1/60.

Is mirror lockup where you wouldn't get camera shake from the mirror? I'll bet that would have made a difference. I just thought perhaps it's impossible to get an absolutely clear shot of an object soooo far away, through atmosphere, etc.

Does this help you with a comparison? This was taken on Sunday evening, just before sunset, handheld, with IS on.

Camera Model Name
Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL
Shooting Date/Time
07/25/04 19:15:35
Tv(Shutter Speed)
1/125
Av(Aperture Value)
5.6
ISO Speed
100
Lens
75.0 - 300.0mm
Focal Length
300.0mm

[opus]

Oh, and obviously, these are cropped....

[natatbeach]

Speed will be excited to see these...nice...especially the second one

[Sebastian]

Kelly,

These are very soft. To bring out the detail stop down to f/8 or f/16. That willmake the lens sharper. Boost ISO if you need short enough shutter speeds to stop the motion of the moon.

I like the composition on the second, well done.

[mtbbrian]

Kelly,
Mirror lock up is a camera feature where the mirror flips up and locks up, before you press the shutter release. I doubt it is on your camera, it is usually a feature on high end pro cameras. I don't know about Canon, but you will find it on Nikon cameras such as the F5 and F3.
It is a handy feature, when doing long exposures, because sometimes the vibration from
the mirror flipping up and locking into place causes the camera to vibrate.

The "remote shutterbutton" you were mentioning is usually called a "shutter release cord."

Brian

[opus]

The "remote shutterbutton" you were mentioning is usually called a "shutter release cord."

Brian

Thanks!!! Words OFTEN fail me, even during the day. It's much worse in the middle of the night.

Sebastian, thanks for the tips! I will try that next time and post my results!

[mjm]

you can get mirror lock up on the 300D by installing new firmware....

[Sebastian]

Sebastian, thanks for the tips! I will try that next time and post my results!

Cool, looking forward to it.

What MJM is true, a firmware hack does open up disabled features, but it is still a hack and I would think long and hard before applying it.

[mtbbrian]

What MJM is true, a firmware hack does open up disabled features, but it is still a hack and I would think long and hard before applying it.

I would agree with you there Seb, who knows what would happen.
As far as I am concerned a mirror lock should remain mechanical, and not automated.
If it wasn't put there or upgraded from the manufacturer there is no way I'd do it.
If a feature is that important I'd buy a camera with it in the first place.
So does Canon have a mirror lock up on any of it's digital or film cameras?
Brian

[Sebastian]

I would agree with you there Seb, who knows what would happen.
As far as I am concerned a mirror lock should remain mechanical, and not automated.
If it wasn't put there or upgraded from the manufacturer there is no way I'd do it.
If a feature is that important I'd buy a camera with it in the first place.
So does Canon have a mirror lock up on any of it's digital or film cameras?
Brian

Canon, unlike Nikon, has seen the value of mirror lockup for a long time and anything at the Elan level and up has it.

A mirror lockup by definition is mechanical, the mirror is a physical thing that moves up mechanically, isn't it? All (to my knowledge) electronic cameras with the exception of the F5 use an electronically actuated mirror lockup. You turn it on, press the shutter once to lock up, pres it again to fire. Obviously that's meant to work with a cable release. D100 has something similar in the "mirror pre-fire." The mirror opens half a second before the shutter, thinking that by then the vibration will have dissipated. Obviously a true mirror lock seems superior because you have more control over it, but in the end I doubt it makes much of a difference in final image quality.

EDIT: I know some of you are wondering, so yes, ANY electronic camera can have mirror lock-up, it's just the manufacturer that's choosing not to include it in the camera firmware to "encourage" you to buy a higher-level camera. It used to require a seperate mechanical lever and internal connections. Now that that everything is just a signal being sent via circuits, whether film or digital, it's just a matter of picking and choosing what to put into it based on firmware.

[mtbbrian]

I have only owned one Nikon that has the mirror lock up feature, F3.
The F100 does not have it.
This has been an interesting thread!
I have learned something about mirror lock up!
Thanks Seb!
Brian

[Peter_AUS]

Gee I'm glad when I stimulate a discussion about something that I find interesting. I too have learnt a little more myself about these things too.

The Hack that is out for the Canon 300D Rebel activates features that have been diabled by Canon as the guts of the Rebel's electronics is essentially very very close to that of the Canon 10D. There are many people using the Hack and using it very successfully. Not that I am recommending it, but bought up the mirror lock for discussion purposes.

[opus]

is this better? Still f5.6, but ISO @200, shutter speed 1/250.

[Peter_AUS]

Yes kelly,

Now take it again at f/8 f/11 and f/16, put the camera in aperture priority and let the camera pick the shutter speed and then compare the images.

Use the timer so when you press the button it will self time and dimish any camera shake from you pressing the button.

The best time to take celestrial photos, I have read, is in the last hour before sunrise. Taken photos late in the day, although not a bad thing, makes you compete with heat haze from the sun being up all day. Make sense.

Amazing what I read about don't you think.

[Speed]

is this better? Still f5.6, but ISO @200, shutter speed 1/250.

This one is definitely getting there!

You shutter speed looks fine, so you need to ensure that your tripod is steady, and get a smooth release. When I first started taking moon shots through my Celestron, anything below 180th of a second was blurred. By working on my release technique, I've taken shots down to 1/10th of a second and gotten sharp images. As a general rule though, keep the shutter speed up. My best images are usually around 250th to 350th of a second with 400 speed film, shooting through an f10 telescope.

Keep working at it! I am definitely seeing improvement in your moon shots!

[opus]

No Peter, it's more basic then that. I thought I was changing the aperture, but when I got inside I realized I wasn't doing what I thought I was doing, and they were all at f5.6.

I wondered why my aperture number was going sky high and I was still getting fast shutter speeds...

[opus]

Alrighty, let's try this again.

Tv(Shutter Speed)
1/160
Av(Aperture Value)
14
ISO Speed
200
Focal Length
300.0mm

The first one I did nothing but crop. It's dark, but I'm wondering if it's sharper.

The second one is the same image, lightened and converted to B&W.

[Janie]

Hey neat - the second one looks like an EYE! Look to the right, you'll see the pupil! lol

Nice shot - It came out cool, more detail after PS - I wish it weren't so bright here, we have a full moon tomorrow night and I want to try out my new telephoto lens on my digitial!

[Peter_AUS]

Alrighty, let's try this again.

Tv(Shutter Speed)
1/160
Av(Aperture Value)
14
ISO Speed
200
Focal Length
300.0mm

The first one I did nothing but crop. It's dark, but I'm wondering if it's sharper.

The second one is the same image, lightened and converted to B&W.

Kelly,

You are using a Tripod aren't you, I don't remember reading if you are ?

You are turning the IS off on the lens if on a Tripod ?

Do you have anything like a filter on the end of the lens, if so, try removing it and see if it makes any difference at all ?

Getting there, certainly much better in black and white.

Are you shooting the images in RAW mode at all ?

If you are what is your post processing procedure ?

If not, why not, you can adjust things before coverting to TIFF files that way ?

Remember only trying to help.

[opus]

Kelly,

You are using a Tripod aren't you, I don't remember reading if you are ?

Yes, I am. It may not be the sturdiest one in the world, though. It's a fairly big compact (the better to travel with, my dear)

You are turning the IS off on the lens if on a Tripod ?

Yes, I am.

Do you have anything like a filter on the end of the lens, if so, try removing it and see if it makes any difference at all ?
I have no filter on the end of the lens. This particular lens is a filter virgin. ;)

Getting there, certainly much better in black and white.
Thanks. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, although I like posting with little to no ps work so that I can get as much advice as possible.

Are you shooting the images in RAW mode at all ?
No, not in RAW. I wouldn't get any more clarity in RAW, would I? I thought RAW would just give me more internal image options, not a sharper image.

If you are what is your post processing procedure ?
None, see above.

If not, why not, you can adjust things before coverting to TIFF files that way ?
I guess I want to get closer to being "better" before I use up that much disk space. All I want is clarity. Then I'll move on to fancier stuff.

Remember only trying to help.
Thank you so much, I really am learning, even though I'm frustrated. What I learn here I can transfer elsewhere.

[Peter_AUS]

Those answers help Kelly. Especially the Filter Virgin bit.

Are Auto Focusing or Manual Focusing your lens, forgot to ask that one.

What time of day/night are you taking the photos of the Moon. I know it depends on when the moon is available in the Month cycle, but all this info will help, especially others that are following this thread as well.

I would try taking the images in RAW as well, you can do a lot of image post processing with the RAW image, like exposure compensation, white balance easier, sharpen the image.

If you haven't gotten hold of Caputre One DSLR, get the trial version and use that for a month, you will get to see what you can do with the RAW image post capture.

Having a Sturdy Tripod is essential for this type of image capture, it is really important that there is no camera movement at all, if you can help it to get a clear image.

This is from a course I am doing from the info book they supply.

Summary for Obtaining Sharp Image.

Four different things you should do in every shot that will help assure that you get the sharpest possible image every time:

1. Do not use a skylight filter to protect the lens.

2. make sure the lens is immaculately clean.

3. Focus carefully and precisely.

4. Avoid camera shake by using a tripod or monopod whenever possible. When you can't, brace the camera and shoot at a very high shutter-speed.

Camera shaek.

This is the most common cause of unsharp pictures. The problem may be caused by the way that you press the shutter relaese button. Uneven finger pressure, excessive pressure, or jabbing at the button can cause camera shake. The correct techique is this:

When you're ready to shoot, place your finger directly over the centre of the release button and then slowly and gently apply pressure until the shutter mechanism is activated. Don't release your finger until after the shot is completed.

[Chunk]

Those answers help Kelly. Especially the Filter Virgin bit.

Are Auto Focusing or Manual Focusing your lens, forgot to ask that one.

Peter, isn't the sharpest focus for distant objects other than having the lens cranked all the way against the focusing stops? Seems like I read that years ago. Didn't make intuitive sense to me and I've always wondered.

[opus]

This is exactly what I'm doing:

Around 10:30 or 11 pm, I take my camera outside to my front porch. It is equipped with a remote shutter release. I plant the tripod on the concrete and make sure it is as stable as possible. Then I make sure IS is off, bring the lens to 300mm, and turn it towards the moon. I try to point the center focusing dot on the moon so that I have enough room to crop attractively. When I've got the moon in position, I tighten the tripod tightly into position.

Now it's time to set exposure. I switch to Manual mode. FIrst I set ISO, and then set Aperture. Then I set shutter speed.

Then I step back from the camera and take hold of the shutter release button. I sneak a peek through the viewfinder again, making sure I don't touch it or breathe too hard near it, to make sure the moon is still in position, then I step away. I wait about 10 seconds to be sure any camera shake from my messing around has stopped. Then, I push the remote button half way. The camera beeps and focuses. While still holding the button half way, I wait about 5 seconds until I'm sure the camera is doing nothing more. Then I follow through.

Then I go back and adjust shutter speed, and go through the whole process again several times. Then I go back and adjust aperture, and go through the whole process again several times. Then I might adjust ISO and repeat it all again.

30 moons later, I'll come in and download them all, and pick the ones with the most desirable settings that look brightest and clearest, and view them, enlarged, in my canon image viewer.

Once I've selected the best shot, I open it Photoshop, select "view as actual pixel size". Then I change my ps ruler preferences to "pixels", bring the zero point to my upper left crop, then go back in with the cropping tool and crop to about 630 pixels wide, 500 pixels tall. Then I "save for web" at the highest jpeg settings possible without bringing size above about 130k.

Then I post.