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Secret to Bokeh?
I am planning on bringing my camera over to my families for Christmas, and I did some searches for Bokeh on here and found some pretty amazing pictures. Cool effect.
What is the secret? I can see myself taking pictures of the family indoors, as well as the backyard.
Would I be better using my 50mm F/1.8 lens, or 18-55 EFS lens for this effect? Camera is a Digital Rebel Xsi
Also, I guess I should add I would like to see this effect indoors low light, shooting my friends band as well in the future
Tips?
Thanks!
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
The 50mm, open it up and voila you have bokeh, well its not the easy but close enough.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
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Originally Posted by zrfraser
The 50mm, open it up and voila you have bokeh, well its not the easy but close enough.
Meaning shoot it at 1.8? Get the focus right and the rest should blur pretty easily?
Damn, that would be nice if it was that easy :)
What about shutter speed? Does that matter as much?
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Ok I just practiced on inanimate objects around my apartment :) That is pretty easy. It doesn't blur totally like some pictures I have seen, but not bad.
Only problem I can envision is, what if the subject is moving...
hmmmmm
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshD
Meaning shoot it at 1.8? Get the focus right and the rest should blur pretty easily?
Damn, that would be nice if it was that easy :)
What about shutter speed? Does that matter as much?
Whatever shutter speed that is required to get the proper exposure of your subject of interest when you are shooting @ f1.8 and certain ISO.
Bokeh is just blurred, out of focus background or negative space in your photograph, right? It's nothing mysterious. It is what will happen when you do not have enough depth of field to cover everything from foreground to background. That means you want to have a shallow depth of field, which usually happens when you shoot at the largest aperture and when the background is far away from your subject of interest.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshD
Only problem I can envision is, what if the subject is moving...
hmmmmm
Go to Nature and Wildlife board and take a look at some of the photos.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Also, you'll get more 'boke' or blurred bg if you have more separation between your subject and bg.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
zr is essentially right. The more you open up your lens (the lower the aperture number) the more you will isolate your subject, blurring the background, creating bokeh. Add to that the more distance between your subject and the background, the more pronounced your bokeh will be. Bokeh can vary A LOT depending on the lens. Here's a few samples I found on Flickr to give you an idea:
Canon 50mm f/1.8
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotopakismo/2055359862/
Canon 18-55mm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/geeo123/2909492801/
Some of the older portrait lenses can get some crazy bokeh like the swirly bokeh of the old Petzval lenses
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42499129@N00/3070239224/
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Thanks Aaron for mentioning that the LENS you're using makes a lot of difference. :wink:
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
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Originally Posted by PRB
Thanks Aaron for mentioning that the LENS you're using makes a lot of difference. :wink:
No problem :)
I just remembered an article that demonstrates this quite well amongst modern Nikon lenses:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/bokeh-comparison.htm
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
awesome, thanks guys
so the more narrow the aperture, and wider the focus area the less blurred the background will be.
looks like i can have some fun with this, good stuff
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
I've realized shutter speed does matter, at least in low light. Too fast makes the picture too dark.
(btw I ordered the book "Understanding Exposure" a couple days ago from Amazon, as I saw it was recommended here quite a few times. Looking forward to learning from it!
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
If I may chime in here?
As noted, Bokeh is the oof (out of focus area) in an image.
A quick demonstration of how to come up with bokeh.
I forget which lens this was, but judging by my noted F stop I'd say it was one of my fifties. Shot at F/2, and focussed at about the thirteenth inch mark, You can quickly see the in focus versus the oof areas. This is Your dof (Depth of Field) at that range using F/2
http://www.fototime.com/120BB18E8DCE341/standard.jpg
Here's another demonstration. This was shot using a Rikenon 55mm F/1.4 lens with an M42 (Pentax screw mount) and adapted to a Canon 10D.
Everything that is oof behind the Tamarac is considered bokeh.
http://www.fototime.com/994258CC144EF8A/standard.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshD
Would I be better using my 50mm F/1.8 lens, or 18-55 EFS lens for this effect? Camera is a Digital Rebel Xsi
The 50mm F/1,8 lens makes it easier to achieve bokeh, but isn't an absolute necessity.
Here is a shot of a kitten with, as you can see, the background thoroughly blown out, again creating bokeh. The camera used here was a Canon G5 with the lens zoomed in on the kitten from a very close proximity. I think this one was around F/5.6. :wink5:
Note everything behind the kitten is just starting to go oof with a smooth look.
-Bruce
http://www.fototime.com/E47CBCF053F0D12/standard.jpg
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Thank you Bruce, good explanation
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
longer focal the focal length, the shallower the DoF for a given aperature. Oh, and don't forget the subject distance from your sensor...
This one was with canon kit lens, minimum focus distance. Wasn't the sharpest shot of the day but gives you a good idea of the effect.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Here's a bokeh example ....
http://www.mikedalesphotography.co.uk/photo1183223.html
Another key is to have a reasonable separation in distance between the subject and the background. If they are too close, the bokeh won't be as good as when there is a good separation.
Cheers
Mike
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
I've never thought much about bokeh except that I have gone for shallow dof which is the same I guess.
Do people take a series of bracketed photos do make the final decision of how much oof is the right bokeh?
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
My Canonet GIII QL17 can, at times, get some of that crazy bokeh with its little 40mm 1.7.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/schrackman/916949901/
Ray
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
The quality (or "smoothness") of the bokeh is, in large part, due to the design of the lens. The more circular the aperture, the smoother the bokeh will be.
While the much loved 50mm f/1.8 by Canon produces fairly good bokeh, it is not great. The 5 bladed aperture produces OOF highlights which are pentagonal shaped and the bokeh doesn't smooth out as nicely as those produced by 6, 7, or even 8 bladed apertured lenses.
As for DOF, there are many ways to control that as others have mentioned. To recap, to decrease the DOF you can:
- Use a wider aperture
- Have the subject closer to the camera
- Increase the focal length of the lens
- Employ a combination of the above
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
I believe that the Japanese term 'bokeh' refers more to the quality of the OOF, not just OOF. It means seeing the OOF background as an important artistic part of the photograph. - TF
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizzy
...Wasn't the sharpest shot of the day but gives you a good idea of the effect.
I think it is worth mentioning that as with all things, there is a trade off. Shooting your lenses wide open or stopped way down may give you some great bokeh or lots of DOF but, it can cause a significant loss in image sharpness. Lenses will generally be sharpest in the f/5.6 - f/11 range.
Here's a link showing how much sharpness can change with a 50mm lens throughout the range:
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/50-...on/f-stops.htm
Here's a link to results from some resolution testing someone did to show that this can vary incredibly from lens to lens:
http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
thanks guys, great information
"increase focal length"- may be a dumb question, but what exactly do you mean by this? I am new to DSLRs from Point and Shoots. I get the wider aperture part.
I am looking forward to trying this out. Good examples Xia, obviously this method wouldnt be ideal for shooting far away subjects, but for close ups of the kids, or insects or whatever it might be cool!
Thanks again
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshD
..."increase focal length"- may be a dumb question, but what exactly do you mean by this? I am new to DSLRs from Point and Shoots. I get the wider aperture part...
He's referring to lens or zoom size. Your 50mm lens, shooting a subject 10 feet away at f/2.8 will yield a DOF field (area in focus) of 1.29 feet. Now let's say for instance you bumped that up to a 200mm lens (an increase in focal length). Shooting a subject 10 feet away at f/2.8 with a 200mm lens will give you a DOF of 0.08 feet. If you would like to see what effect apertures, focal lengths, and distances can have, check out this link:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Awesome, thank you
Actually I kind of figured out what focal length was after I posted that, I was just drawing a blank :)
So much to learn with this camera, can't wait to delve in...
Thanks for the link too, very helpful
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldClicker
I believe that the Japanese term 'bokeh' refers more to the quality of the OOF, not just OOF. It means seeing the OOF background as an important artistic part of the photograph. - TF
This pretty much sums up my understanding of the word as well. You can have good bokeh, which imo is creamy and smooth looking, and you can have bad bokeh. A good example of bad bokeh for instance might be that of a mirror lens where the background looks like a bunch of circles, or doughnuts. I've also seen bokeh that looks all blotchy, and or spikey, which might actually distract from the image.
Every one has their own version of what they like, or don't like. :p
-Bruce
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
http://www.photographyreview.com/exposureguidecrx.aspx
Some key things to remember:
• Aperture controls the DOF
• The closer you focus, the shallower the DOF (more blur)
• The further you focus, the deeper the DOF (less blur)
• The longer the focal length, the shallower the DOF (a wide angle has less blur than a tele)
Hope that helps.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
For some reason, I seem to get a shallow-er DOF using prime lenses than zoom. Is this the case, or is it perceived on my behalf?
http://gallery.photographyreview.com...ium/img136.jpg
Here is a photo with some crazy bokeh. Enjoy! :)
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by danic
For some reason, I seem to get a shallow-er DOF using prime lenses than zoom. Is this the case, or is it perceived on my behalf?
I suspect that you are using primes, since they are generally faster/wider, at a wider aperture than you would/could with a zoom.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
I wouldn't think prime or zoom would have anything to do with it if they have the same aperture,
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
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Originally Posted by Frog
I wouldn't think prime or zoom would have anything to do with it if they have the same aperture,
I wouldn't have thought so either Frog, but this photo was shot at f16, yet it's still fairly shallow. It was with a 50mm prime, so hence my question about DOF, prime and zoom lenses.
http://gallery.photographyreview.com...ium/img052.png
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Danic,
If that was taken with a 50mm at f16 then I think the lens might be broken. There is no way the DOF should be that shallow.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
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Originally Posted by Sebastian
Danic,
If that was taken with a 50mm at f16 then I think the lens might be broken. There is no way the DOF should be that shallow.
Right - looks like you focused about 10' away, and at f16 with a 50mm lens this entire shot should be within the DOF (in focus).
Using a prime 50mm at a given focus distance and aperture will give you the same DOF as a zoom lens at 50mm with the same focus distance and aperture.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Here's a tip about shooting a moving subject:
The apature and shutter speed are like a teeter tater. When one goes up, the other goes down, depending upon available light. To capture movement, try setting your camera to shutter preferred and keep bumping up the shutter speed until the apature gets into the bokeh range (low number, wide opening) that you want.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Are you guys sure danic's DOF is off in the pic? I'm guessing the fence is about 3 feet high making the center of focus maybe 7 or 8 feet away??? At 8 feet and f/16, that only gives a little over 5 feet of DOF.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by danic
I wouldn't have thought so either Frog, but this photo was shot at f16, yet it's still fairly shallow. It was with a 50mm prime, so hence my question about DOF, prime and zoom lenses.
This may help:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tut...h-of-field.htm
And here:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/dof2.shtml
And I quote:
In fact, if the subject image size remains the same, then at any given aperture all lenses will give the same depth of field.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xia_Ke
Are you guys sure danic's DOF is off in the pic? I'm guessing the fence is about 3 feet high making the center of focus maybe 7 or 8 feet away??? At 8 feet and f/16, that only gives a little over 5 feet of DOF.
This is what I was thinking. I've been wrong before though. :)
-Bruce
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xia_Ke
Are you guys sure danic's DOF is off in the pic? I'm guessing the fence is about 3 feet high making the center of focus maybe 7 or 8 feet away??? At 8 feet and f/16, that only gives a little over 5 feet of DOF.
Or could be about 9.29 ft according to here:
http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html
Assuming danic was shooting with film camera.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
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Originally Posted by AgingEyes
True, I assumed DSLR. Good site too, that's where I got the 5 foot figure.
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Re: Secret to Bokeh?
Here are a couple from Christmas yesterday at my brothers...
I wish I had experimented around a bit more but I took all the pictures with the 50mm at 1.8 setting. I did mess around with shutter speed alot, depending on the light quality
My niece is in a Cinderella phase, she never takes the dress off :)
My nephew just eats constantly
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