How do you get over this?

[ChowChi-Ching]

I have been having a hard time with giving into people when it comes to price. I am lower priced them most of my competition, yet people still try and talk me down on price. And I do give a discount if they order more then one session from me (Wedding + Family Portraits.. or Senior + Family.. Etc. ) but how do I get people to see that my prices are actually under average price for my area. People tend to make me feel bad for my prices and alot will give me a guilt trip on their life and how desperately they need these pics but have no money. And I am more then willing to help but I do not want to be known for being "cheap". I find that I am breaking even most of the time.


So how do I get over this and start to actually make a good profit?

[Canuck935]

Don't let them put you on those guilt trips. If you are already giving them a discount anyway tell them that. If they don't like your pricing they can go find another photographer. They'll come back to you once they get some other price quotes and realize they really were getting a deal.

[another view]

Generally, there are two kinds of people - those who focus only on price and those who look at what they're getting for the money. I have a little experience with this (like a half-dozen of them) from a few years ago and always hated this part of it. Since it was a side-job, if they didn't want to pay what I was asking I'd quickly pass on it. Be firm on this - if you give one person a break, they'll tell others and pretty soon your regular price went down (experience with selling other stuff).

If you want to make a career out of this business, you'll probably have to take some lower-priced jobs (and clients with that attitude) to get established. Keep your standards high; just because you're not making much on it you should still give 110%. I'm a firm believer in that with anything - do it or don't do it - anything half way will come back to hurt you later.

You may pass on some jobs, but in the long run you'll probably be better off.

[erikzen]

I am not a professional photographer but have run my own marketing business and have done some business consulting for other small companies. In general, you set a price that includes a small profit and you stick to it. The customers and clients that beat you up on price will also beat you up at every other juncture in the project. If you are offering a fair price and they don't agree it is their prerogative to go elsewhere.

There are basically only two scenarios when a business owner should compete on price: when you are just starting out and need to build up some experience and a portfolio of clients; and if you are only looking to gain market share and eliminate some competition. Otherwise, set a fair price that includes a reasonable profit and stick to it.

You are better off not working than taking a job where you lose money. I consider breaking even losing money because that means you are working for free. It may not be an out of pocket loss but it is an opportunity cost. If you are not making money that time could be spent honing your craft, taking a walk with your wife or spending time with your kids. Working a job for no pay is not an acceptable use of your time, unless you are building experience.

And don't let anyone make you feel guilty over setting a reasonable price. They are not going to lose sleep over you having to make due with less money in your pocket. That should not even enter into the equation.

[ChowChi-Ching]

I agree. I always try to do the best job I can because regardless of what I am paid, it is still my reputation represented in those pictures.

[another view]

I agree. I always try to do the best job I can because regardless of what I am paid, it is still my reputation represented in those pictures.

Good, that's #1. In a case like that, you agreed to do it, so do it!

erikzen makes a lot of good points. One thing to think about is what you will gain by doing the job - money, obviously (hopefully), but what will it add to your portfolio? What connections will you make with other potential clients?

I have a friend who's one of the higher-end DJ's in town, and he could trace about a dozen wedding receptions he did back to just one. Let's say he took it for half his normal price, and because of that, he didn't give everything he had to the gig. Would he book another dozen gigs based on his performance that night? I doubt he cut his price (he turns away work as it is) and I'd have a hard time imagining him not giving 110% on any gig. And this is why - you never know when you're doing that one that'll turn into so much more until after it's happened.

[adina]

calculate how much time you are spending on a session, then figure out how much you are making per hour.

Years, ago, I figured out I made $1/hr on a session. Who wants to work for a dollar an hour? So I adjusted my prices to reflect what I need to make to make it worth doing. Needless to say, it's more than $1 an hour.

When people give you are hard time about prices, it is easier to give in. But consider how much your time is worth. Would the person haggling with you want to work for $1/hour? I bet not.

[Kajuah]

Generally a lot of photogs try to blend in their hourly wage with the cash it takes to develop the materials. 20 $ an hour - 30 $ + is quite common.

[Photo-John]

Point out to them that the camera company isn't giving you a discount. And neither is the printer or the oil company. If they continue to argue, tell them to take their own damn pictures. Digital cameras are magic anyway, right? Anyone can do it.

[ChowChi-Ching]

hehe, thanks everyone. I do feel better and I think I will stand a little more firm on my prices and not be swayed as much by hagglers. I don't mind helping out people when they really need it, but I also have a family and this is part of our income as well.

[another view]

I was told by a guy who had been in the business for a long time that if you need to haggle, don't lower your price. Throw in additional prints for free, hopefully something they wouldn't normally buy so you're not out sales of those prints. Give 'em a 16x20 or something - they really don't cost you too much.

[gracie_r]

Wow, I can't even fathom trying to talk a photographer down on their prices! Those people should be embarressed of themselves.

I'd hand them the number of the local Wal-Mart photography studio and tell them to call there if they are looking for a deal...

[xystren]

I have been having a hard time with giving into people when it comes to price. I am lower priced them most of my competition, yet people still try and talk me down on price. And I do give a discount if they order more then one session from me (Wedding + Family Portraits.. or Senior + Family.. Etc. ) but how do I get people to see that my prices are actually under average price for my area. People tend to make me feel bad for my prices and alot will give me a guilt trip on their life and how desperately they need these pics but have no money. And I am more then willing to help but I do not want to be known for being "cheap". I find that I am breaking even most of the time.


So how do I get over this and start to actually make a good profit?

I used to do computer consulting on the side when I was working in information technology, and I always ran into these type of situations of "Why do I charge so much?"

Considering for home users, I was only charging $25-30/hr which is low by most standards considering the normal bench rate is about $60+/hr at most computer stores/big box retailers.

I would also ask them, "Where else have you check for with prices?" Often they would say they haven't. I'd respond "Considering at [big box retailer] you would pay minimum $60/hr, I think your getting a pretty decent deal. If you don't think so, perhaps I am not the right consultant for you..."

That line I've put in bold for me was always a "magic phrase." Simply you hypothetically take the service away from them. People typically don't like things taken from them, so they have a tendency to change their tune. At the same time you also let them know that your a professional and that *YOU* know what your time is worth (even if they don't.)

Another thing I would also suggest is not to change your hourly rate per job. Nothing worse than someone coming in and saying "You gave so and so this rate, and your charging me more." (that will likely be a lost referral) If you are wanting to give a break, adjust the hours (only down, never up). Eg. "This whole thing took 3 hours, but really an hour of that I was just waiting for a scan to complete, so I will only bill for the 2 hours." They get a deal, your able to give a discount of sorts, and your "rate" doesn't change for the next customer to complain about.

If that didn't work, I would tell them to be happy I wasn't billing out for my professional rate which was (at the time) almost $1000/day (not that I ever saw that much )

[another view]

Wow, I can't even fathom trying to talk a photographer down on their prices! Those people should be embarressed of themselves.

Wait until the "day of" and they have a couple of drinks in them...

Shopping for some things based on price makes sense. Gasoline is one of those things. However if the person asking you to cut your rate is driving anything other than an '82 Chevette, they can probably understand what spending a little extra (like they did for their BMW) will get them. You're not a commodity, you're a photographer.

[Lori11]

One thing I have found helps A LOT is having a printed price list, then you can add "custom packages" because its to hard to print everything. Instead of lowering my prices ( I flat out cant afford to) I will throw in a print. If there is still complaining, I tell them I understand and I dont blame them for shopping around. I have had 2 that went elsewhere an came back about 6 months later because the "got what they paid for" and were not happy. Stick to your guns, or try their tactic at the gas station and see how they handle it

[ChowChi-Ching]

Thanks. I like the idea of throwing in a extra print or so to help make them think they are getting the better end of the deal... I want to be generous to people but I need to make a profit too. I do have printed prices on a brochure that I give to people and that is usually where they try to "make deals" with me. But I think I am going to just start telling them that it will be a custom package and I will have to figure out what my prices are in detail for that.

Thanks so much for all the help!

[WesternGuy]

I agree with the others who say to stand firm on your prices! Before I retired, I did IT consulting and basically told potential clients that this is the hourly rate and if they didn't like it they could look elsewhere. A lot of times the client would ask for the hourly rate and when I told them they didn't argue. I bet you will find that if people try and get you to lower your prices that they may want other freebies along the way. Everything you do takes your time and time is always money. I also agree with your last thought that if it is not on the printed list then it is a custom job and you will have to figure out what the price is. You do not want to get a reputation for being someone who will cut his prices if the client argues a bit with the cost. They are buying a service, your skills and the products of the service and your skills, and this is what you charge for the service and the use of your skills, and the products produced. Stand firm!!

Good luck,

WesternGuy