Editing other peoples work

Can somebody make this (or something like it) a sticky to avoid future problems?

I just had a picture edited by a new member who wasn't aware of the policy about editing a person's work without permission. As a result, Liz (mod) has complimented me on the edit, when I didn't make it. This has happened on occasion to others, and although those people making the edits mean well, it leads to confusion. I don't have a problem with people asking if they can edit a picture to show me a different way of doing something, but some people get pretty upset if their work is edited by others.

Thanks,
John

Hey John,
Can I edit your spelling? :eek:

You wrote: TO ANY WELL-MEANING INDIVIDUALS: PLEASE TO NOT EDIT MY WORK WITHOUT MY PERMISSION

When you meant:
TO ANY WELL-MEANING INDIVIDUALS: PLEASE DO NOT EDIT MY WORK WITHOUT MY PERMISSION :D

JS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JSPhoto

Hey John,
Can I edit your spelling? :eek:

You wrote: TO ANY WELL-MEANING INDIVIDUALS: PLEASE TO NOT EDIT MY WORK WITHOUT MY PERMISSION

When you meant:
TO ANY WELL-MEANING INDIVIDUALS: PLEASE DO NOT EDIT MY WORK WITHOUT MY PERMISSION :D

JS

---

Arrrrrrrrrrghhhh:o Thanks JS.....change made.

ROTFLAMO......:D :D :D

Sorry John, I had to do it ;)

JS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JSPhoto

ROTFLAMO......:D :D :D

Sorry John, I had to do it ;)

JS

---

It took me a few minutes to read it over again, when I discovered the error. I need a proofreader...........you're hired.;)

Sometimes I need one too!

I do agree though, no one should edit a photo without first asking.

So when is the Michigan get together? Actually, I may be heading up that way next month or early May for a couple days, gotta hit Owosso, Chelsea, Springport and Lansing to get some photos and vist my Aunt and Uncle.

JS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by swmdrayfan

Can somebody make this (or something like it) a sticky to avoid future problems?

I just had a picture edited by a new member who wasn't aware of the policy about editing a person's work without permission. As a result, Liz (mod) has complimented me on the edit, when I didn't make it. This has happened on occasion to others, and although those people making the edits mean well, it leads to confusion. I don't have a problem with people asking if they can edit a picture to show me a different way of doing something, but some people get pretty upset if their work is edited by others.

Thanks,
John

---

I haven't always asked, although I only ever did it to people I knew I could beat up if I had too:p

I don't do it at all anymore though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by almo

I haven't always asked, although I only ever did it to people I knew I could beat up if I had too:p

I don't do it at all anymore though.

---

To be honest, I'm quite honored if somebody takes the time to try to edit...I'm waaaaaaaaaaay to lazy to show the edits I would do with the majority of the pictures. But, regardless, I still would want permission asked before I give let somebody do it.

Think you could take me on almo?!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jar_e

To be honest, I'm quite honored if somebody takes the time to try to edit...I'm waaaaaaaaaaay to lazy to show the edits I would do with the majority of the pictures. But, regardless, I still would want permission asked before I give let somebody do it.

Think you could take me on almo?!:D

---

I could kick your scrawny butt...Go to bed young man!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by almo

I could kick your scrawny butt...Go to bed young man!

---

Oh hush...scrawny is for children, I am an adult (atleast in Alberta):D Atleast give me some respect and call me just tall and skinny *laugh*. Bed? Sleep is overrated...especially when a 9 am final is around the corner!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jar_e

Oh hush...scrawny is for children, I am an adult (atleast in Alberta):D Atleast give me some respect and call me just tall and skinny *laugh*. Bed? Sleep is overrated...especially when a 9 am final is around the corner!:D

---

Ok how is this,

I'll take your tongue and pull it out of your a** you skinny bag of bones. Dosen't your momma feed you? Dang come on down here and after I beat you silly I'll feed you some southern fried chicken and fatten you up a bit.

BTW sleep is for wussies:p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by almo

Ok how is this,

I'll take your tongue and pull it out of your a** you skinny bag of bones. Dosen't your momma feed you? Dang come on down here and after I beat you silly I'll feed you some southern fried chicken and fatten you up a bit.

BTW sleep is for wussies:p

---

Ahahah sounds like a plan almo. I agree sleep is overrated and just plain silly:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JSPhoto

So when is the Michigan get together? Actually, I may be heading up that way next month or early May for a couple days, gotta hit Owosso, Chelsea, Springport and Lansing to get some photos and vist my Aunt and Uncle.

JS

---

I'll be spending all my time in Battle Creek at the Devil Rays games. When you hit Lansing, try to catch a Lugnuts game. They're the Blue Jays low A affiliate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JSPhoto

ROTFLAMO......:D :D :D

Sorry John, I had to do it ;)

JS

---

Yep, you could use a proofreader, too, JS. That should actually be ROTFLMAO. So am I hired?:D :D

Hey, jar_e, how about you are a long, tall drink of water? :D I have always heard that term used for those of your stature.

About editing my work. I could care less. Not a big deal IMO. specially with a tight knit group as it is here. It's always someone I know that usually edits shots of mine, even it itsn't , I don't mind. I probably won't be around to give permission, so it's alright with me.

Worst case scenario, Almo does some edits and ends up pulling Jared's tounge from his ass, I don't see the problem :D It's entertaining.

I agree that in this forum it doesn't make much sense to edit someone elses work unasked. In the critique forum, where people are posting their work asking for other's opinions or suggestions, I think that a picture can be worth a thousand words and an edit that illustrates a suggested change is often a more effective way of providing feedback than a confusing written explanation.

I hope that everyone feels free to offer me any suggestions on any of my work in any way they feel best puts the point across - especially in the critique forum but for my work, anywhere they see it. That feedback is what I see as the strongest benefit of this community since I don't have a good source of honest feedback from people whose work I like other than here. It's much better than the "Oh, this is nice, I love it" comments that I get from family and friends or happens in some other online venues.

When someone takes the time to download my pic, work on it, and repost it as an illustration of suggested changes, I think it is a real gift they have given me. I don't always agree that the suggestion is an improvement, but it is nice to see how someone else sees things.

Thanks to all of those who do offer all sorts of feedback, please continue to do so.

Well said Chunk. Even if I haven't expressed it well in my post above, I also appreciate the time taken by those that want to illustrate their ideas to me through visuals even if I don't agree with them. Like you said, a picture is indeed worth a thousand words and it's much better to understand what others are saying when they actually show it rather than try and explain it. Especially when it comes to crops. or the " crop above the post to the left and to the left of the post above". etc.

I try not to edit too many people's work (I infact stopped doing it ) because of the sensetivity involved in this issue, but sometimes I wish I could just do it and thus saving me the time to accurately explain it.

This thread got a little off topic so I don't think I'll sticky it...

I do agree that it's a personal choice whether or not it's OK to edit someone else's work. Personally, I wouldn't want someone to do that to my shots unless I specifically asked someone to do it.

I think that would be the best policy - don't edit someone else's work unless you know it's OK. John, did it happen here or in Critique (or somewhere else)? I'm thinking that there's a bigger possibility of that happening in Critique by it's nature. Maybe send mtbbrian a private message and ask him to post a sticky about it there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chunk

When someone takes the time to download my pic, work on it, and repost it as an illustration of suggested changes, I think it is a real gift they have given me. I don't always agree that the suggestion is an improvement, but it is nice to see how someone else sees things.

---

I'm with you Chunk. My PS skills are very basic. I do very little PS work on my shots. Mostly just cropping and/or resizing.

I don't mind someone editing my work to show me how it can be improved. I've learned a great deal about photography here, and I'm grateful to everyone who's shared their knowledge with me. I especially like it when they tell me WHAT they did and HOW they did it.

For sure, we should make sure the individual knows and approves of having their work edited. Maybe we need a guideline that says if you edit someone's work, label it as such, and give an explanation of what you did.

Now if Paul will post that edit he did of my grackle in Nature and Wildlife and tell me what he did...

He emailed me the edit, and it was great!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by almo

I haven't always asked, although I only ever did it to people I knew I could beat up if I had too:p

I don't do it at all anymore though.

---

You can edit me anytime.

I am with you (John, we have a lot of John's around her don't we?). I do not like people editing something of mine and posting it. In my mind it kind of makes it theirs and not mine. Suggesting the changes is one thing and what it is all about of course, but actually doing them bugs me!
It is a personal thing, both the doing it and liking it or not.
Simply asking people not to do it should solve things.
Brian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by another view

This thread got a little off topic so I don't think I'll sticky it...

I do agree that it's a personal choice whether or not it's OK to edit someone else's work. Personally, I wouldn't want someone to do that to my shots unless I specifically asked someone to do it.

I think that would be the best policy - don't edit someone else's work unless you know it's OK. John, did it happen here or in Critique (or somewhere else)? I'm thinking that there's a bigger possibility of that happening in Critique by it's nature. Maybe send mtbbrian a private message and ask him to post a sticky about it there.

---

It happened in Critique. It's not really a major issue as the guy didn't know the policy. My concern is if someone posts a photo, then 10 people post edits, the original gets lost in the process---somewhere down the line, someone happening upon the thread gets confused and congratulates the wrong person on a great shot, while the original poster gets ignored. If I sound overly sensitive about it...well---I am, because that's what happened in this particular instance with just one edit. Lord knows I need all the help I can get, but I'd rather be in control of how many people edit my work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by swmdrayfan

I'll be spending all my time in Battle Creek at the Devil Rays games. When you hit Lansing, try to catch a Lugnuts game. They're the Blue Jays low A affiliate.

---

I'll let you know when I plan on heading up that way John. I want to get there before May though....May tends to get a bit busy around Central Indiana.

JS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by swmdrayfan

Lord knows I need all the help I can get, but I'd rather be in control of how many people edit my work.

---

I can understand and respect that choice. Personally I'm with you on that - I'd rather hear that an image should have more/less contrast or something than have someone just go ahead and do it. It's a personal choice and your signature makes your choice very apparent! Like I said, I think the best policy here and anywhere else is not to edit someone else's work without permission.

When I first started posting here a couple of people and edited my photos and some posted photos of their own to show me the deficiencies in mine. I think I always had a sense of composition, but people showed me how to handle contrast and sharpness better, in particular. I'm not sure if I could have seen it as readily.

I sometimes edit other people's work on the critique board where I think a picture will tell the story better than my words. I don't do it often and I wouldn't do it just to do it, but I think it is a valuable part of offering a critique at times. Sometimes the recipients seem to truly grateful. CLKunst, for example, had an image that cried out for black and white to me. I showed her a quick change and she loved it and printed her own (better) b&w version adn even got it published.

I myself sometimes feel possesive of my photos, but try to remember that when I post to critique all bets are sort of off. Mostly people around here are nice and if they're not one of us will call them on it, but at the end of the day we want tough criticism, right? That's how we grow. One fo the reasons I don't usually post photos of people I know and care about is that it might be tough to read some criticism in the right light -- i.e., I need to remember that just 'cause the poster doesn't like my photo, doesn't mean they hate my kid.

Anyway, I guess that's a roundabout way of saying that we are all very passionate about this stuff. That's why se post here. And I understand where you are coming from, but I wanted to give you the other side as I saw it, too.

I agree with Lava Lamp. I should also add that having given workshops in copyright law to television producers, the legal situation is this. If you post an image in this kind of critical forum then you are doing so, with the expectation that someone might edit it and are therefore giving them that right, intentionally or not. That is the law.

Ronnoco

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronnoco

I should also add that having given workshops in copyright law to television producers, the legal situation is this. If you post an image in this kind of critical forum then you are doing so, with the expectation that someone might edit it and are therefore giving them that right, intentionally or not. That is the law.

---

With all due respect to your legal experience, the law is what we chose to allow on this forum, it being a private forum. By posting on a critique forum, you are only asking for advice. There is no implicit request or permission for someone to edit your work. Photos are private property and therefore sacred on this site. To be conservative and avoid offending anyone, the right thing to do is to not edit someone else's photo without their permission.

I'm going to make the final call on this. I've actually said it before but I guess it needs to be officially posted - the rule is that people are not allowed to post edited versions of someone else's photos without the original photographer's permission. I will add this to the Photo Critique guidelines. I know that people will violate this guideline because people don't read forum guidelines. So everyone please help me enforce it by politely letting violaters know what the standard is here. And if someone edits your photo without asking, please let them know that it's not ok - even if you don't mind that they did it. Remember - photos are sacred. We can't afford to have any margin on this subject. My photo is my photo and only I have the right to touch it. If I give you my permission, go wild. But otherwise, hands off.

Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp

I think I always had a sense of composition, but people showed me how to handle contrast and sharpness better, in particular. I'm not sure if I could have seen it as readily.

---

This can be a good learning tool, but what has to happen first is getting permission to edit the image. For example, you post an image but I think it could use a little adjustment in curves. I should say - Hey LL, I like your shot but I think there should be more contrast to it - do you mind if I edit it?. If you say yes, then I'll show you what I mean. If you don't want me to do it, then you've already got my advice anyway and I'll respect your wishes.

As we've all read here, some people do not want their images edited. Ask first, simple as that.

PS - I had a similar thing happen on another site. I put a shot in the gallery and someone copied my image, edited it and posted their version in the critique. I've never seen that done on that site before. They thought my shot needed more contrast. I think their version looked awful.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by another view

This can be a good learning tool, but what has to happen first is getting permission to edit the image. For example, you post an image but I think it could use a little adjustment in curves. I should say - Hey LL, I like your shot but I think there should be more contrast to it - do you mind if I edit it?. If you say yes, then I'll show you what I mean. If you don't want me to do it, then you've already got my advice anyway and I'll respect your wishes.

As we've all read here, some people do not want their images edited. Ask first, simple as that.

PS - I had a similar thing happen on another site. I put a shot in the gallery and someone copied my image, edited it and posted their version in the critique. I've never seen that done on that site before. They thought my shot needed more contrast. I think their version looked awful.

---

same thing happened to me on another site. And it just happened to someone else here on a photo in the critique forum.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by another view

This can be a good learning tool, but what has to happen first is getting permission to edit the image. For example, you post an image but I think it could use a little adjustment in curves. I should say - Hey LL, I like your shot but I think there should be more contrast to it - do you mind if I edit it?. If you say yes, then I'll show you what I mean. If you don't want me to do it, then you've already got my advice anyway and I'll respect your wishes.

As we've all read here, some people do not want their images edited. Ask first, simple as that.

PS - I had a similar thing happen on another site. I put a shot in the gallery and someone copied my image, edited it and posted their version in the critique. I've never seen that done on that site before. They thought my shot needed more contrast. I think their version looked awful.

---

Sure, I've had that happen to my photos, too. It's amazing how much someone can muck it up. Of course, people probably think that when I've done an edit, too!:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Photo-John

With all due respect to your legal experience, the law is what we chose to allow on this forum, it being a private forum. By posting on a critique forum, you are only asking for advice. There is no implicit request or permission for someone to edit your work. Photos are private property and therefore sacred on this site. To be conservative and avoid offending anyone, the right thing to do is to not edit someone else's photo without their permission.

---

John, just for info. sake, I have had my e-mail address published without my permission on the net, which means that currently at one address, I have 1,500 spam messages. Given that situation, unless this site has great security it would be easy for all photos from the gallery for example and elsewhere to be "harvested" by a software program and used without permission for monetary gain. That is a much more serious problem than someone unaware of the site protocol inadvertantly editing someone else's photo, with good intentions of trying to show where improvements can be made.

So, yes, this certainly is a private site, (if there is indeed a sufficient level of security to maintain that privacy) and no one here is really that interested in editing someone else's photo anyway, given the time and effort And needless to say no one wants to offend one of their colleagues here. Nevertheless newbies will often not be aware of or not remember this or other protocols, so despite the best of intentions it will still happen on occasion.
Internal protocols are indeed important and will be followed, but as the site manager we have some expectations from you, with regard to protection from external sources of copyright or privacy infringement through hacking.

So how private is this website as in how secure is it from outside hacking or harvesting of either email addresses, personal information, or photos? Some sites are checked daily for traces of hacking with software. Some have personal information or photos in SSL protected areas. Some have other methods. The purpose is to discourage to a certain level, outside hacking of this site. What are you doing in this regard?

Regards,

Ronnoco

Ronnoco

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronnoco

no one here is really that interested in editing someone else's photo anyway, given the time and effort And needless to say no one wants to offend one of their colleagues here

---

Well, yes it is happening. Mostly (I think) it happens in Critique but it has been known to happen other places on this site as well. The point of this discussion is that the "critiquers" are thinking that they're helping by doing their own edit, and the photographer is offended that someone would take the liberty to do that.

I see what you're saying about image theft, email harvesting, etc. I get a ton of spam, but it didn't start happening until well after I was active on this site. The only time I've ever had an image stolen was on ebay - but OTOH that was the only one that I caught. Maybe my shots are out there doing something for somebody and I'll never know. That's the risk that you have to accept by putting your images on the web. Two clicks and the image can be stolen, at least in most situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronnoco

I agree with Lava Lamp. I should also add that having given workshops in copyright law to television producers, the legal situation is this. If you post an image in this kind of critical forum then you are doing so, with the expectation that someone might edit it and are therefore giving them that right, intentionally or not. That is the law.

Ronnoco

---

Ronnoco,

We have had previous conversations about copyright law and other related law, before telling me I am wrong again, realize that you are in Canada and I am in the US and the laws ARE different. International law is actually just as strict as US law on copyright.
Here in the US our photos are protected by US copyright and under that law it is illegal for anyone to download or alter OUR images, no matter what you think. My brother in law is a copyright lawyer and has dealt witrh this situation thousands of times and has yet to lose a case, whether the photos were registered or not.
The difference is that unregistered photo cases you only get damages and not attorney fees.
JS

to me, it's alright, as long as permission is granted, either

"poster A, I would like to show you how I would edit the photo, is that alright?" or "Poster A, I have taken the liberty to edit your photo. If this is a problem with you, just let me know and I'll delete it right away."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by livin4lax09

to me, it's alright, as long as permission is granted, either

"poster A, I would like to show you how I would edit the photo, is that alright?" or "Poster A, I have taken the liberty to edit your photo. If this is a problem with you, just let me know and I'll delete it right away."

---

Liven, the rule is to get permission BEFORE doing anything like editing another persons photo.

To me, this "should" be common sense, but then that is how I was raised. The reason we have so many stupid laws and rules in this country is A: Lack of common sense B: Lack of respect for others, and the "I can do want I want, screw you attitude" that runs rampant.
Not saying that is what happened here but it is how some feel when others do as they wish with our photos.

JS

Interesting discussion, and as with many discussions on here, there are varying viewpoints. Of course, PJ set the standard and as such all should follow. I have a suggestion, as I am one who needs to be "shown" as well as "told" how to do something, when you post a photo, add a line something like "This photo may/may not be edited and displayed in this forum for educational purposes, only." Or something to that effect. I, like some others, appreciate when someone shows me how my photos can be better and then explains how they did it so that I can go and try to duplicate it. Admitted, this is my personal quirk, but since I don't learn well by reading, I need people not only to explain but also to show.
I have in the past, in trying to be helpful and also to learn on my part, edited a couple of shots. I did not ask specific permission in advance but based on previous responses and the original post, felt it was ok. I will change that method of thinking though and in the future, ask if it is ok to post an edit.
Ken

There is another forum that I occasionally visit that has had this issue frequently.

For those who want someone to show them by editing, they simply have added to their signature "feel free to edit" or something of the sort. For those who don't want others mucking with thier work, a simple "please don't edit" in the signature had solved that issue.

I would say unless someone specifies "feel free to edit" in one way or another, leave it alone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adina

There is another forum that I occasionally visit that has had this issue frequently.

For those who want someone to show them by editing, they simply have added to their signature "feel free to edit" or something of the sort. For those who don't want others mucking with thier work, a simple "please don't edit" in the signature had solved that issue.

I would say unless someone specifies "feel free to edit" in one way or another, leave it alone.

---

That's a great suggestion Adina! Personally, I don't mind someone showing me a different, or better way to work an image. I'm all for improving, all the time ( I attend 150 hours of continuing ed every year in my profession-the requirement is 50 hours every two years), but I can see where unsolicited "help" would be annoying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adina

There is another forum that I occasionally visit that has had this issue frequently.

For those who want someone to show them by editing, they simply have added to their signature "feel free to edit" or something of the sort. For those who don't want others mucking with thier work, a simple "please don't edit" in the signature had solved that issue.

I would say unless someone specifies "feel free to edit" in one way or another, leave it alone.

---

Imagine my surprise when I re opened this thread after finishing my little project that shows up in my sig. The little jpeg is active so click on it for a short explanation.

Maybe there could be a standard one somewhere on PR so everyone could see at a glance that edits are OK. Until then anyone wanting to use these files for their own sig is welcome to do so. (right click on the icon to get its url from the properties)