Shooting on White and Black Seamless

[j0rdanisme]

Hey guys,
Im having a heck of a time getting this dialed in. I have done a little research on the subject but I would like to get your opinion on this. So, here is my setup.

We use all 1000W bulbs. 2 standalone 1000W's in soft boxes, roughly 3" tall by 2 feet wide. On light stands, can do whatever with them. Also, we have a larger softbox, roughly 5 feet by 4 feet wide, that has 2 1000w bulbs in it that hangs over the backdrop. We shoot with a 7D, and im still getting glass figured out.

So, here's my question. How do you correctly light when shooting on black? I have had success shooting on white (over exposed backdrop, properly exposed subject) but I always get brutal results when shooting on black. Either the backdrop looks washed, or the subject doesn't pop as much as I would like.

So, as photo-john said its all about highlights and shadows. So, my question goes like this. How would I correctly light a bike if I was shooting on a black backdrop?

If we did the opposite as white it would be under exposure the backdrop, and correctly expose the subject. Do i need to get a material for the backdrop to kill the light that hits it? Do i need to get some potentiometers to turn down the lighting for the backdrop a bit maybe?

Im fairly lost with black backdrops, so any help would be nice.


Not BAD, but nothing amazing


A success, I wouldn't say Great Success though.

[IanHylands]

Jordan, read through this awesome tutorial by Zack Arias, it'll help you out. http://www.zarias.com/?p=71 It's about shooting on white but it should help. Also keep in mind what I said about shooting with separate background lights so that you can have the camera on a tripod and shoot 2 exposures. One with everything lit and one with only the background lit so you get a perfect silhouette of the product. That's an easy way to create a clipping mask so you can take the photo off the background and put it on anything you want.

[Photo-John]

Ian's suggestion about shooting two exposures is a great one. I always wanted a backlit shooting table for that very reason. That doesn't work with bikes, though. So separating the background and subject lights is the solution. You could even move your lights - as long as you don't move your subject or the camera. The trick is to make sure both images are completely registered so it's simple to make the mask or clipping path. Just copy one of the images and drop it on top of the other one as a layer and make a mask by selecting the white background.

Here's a fact to keep in mind - you'll never get a perfectly exposed background. Or rather - it's really tricky to do it. It can be done, because when we shot film, you had to get it 95% right in-camera. Lucky for us, with Photoshop, you don't have to get it quite so perfect. I don't have that much experience shooting on black. But I have enough to know it almost never comes out really black. Just like white almost always comes out a little gray. For black, I think you'd want to have your seamless as far away from the subject as possible so that as little light as possible hits it. You could also try lighting from higher so that the light hits your subject but not the seamless. Think about what the light is going to do. It's directional. How can you keep it from reaching the seamless?

When I said it's all about the shadows and highlights I was thinking more about shooting white on white. Since the edges of your bike frame will tend to blend into your white seamless, you want to make sure there are shadows on the edges of the tubes so that it stands out from the white background. That means more direct lighting. Instead of trying to keep it super smooth and non-directional, move your lights in and closer to the level of the bike. Then you'll start to see shadows on the tops and bottoms of the tubes. Play with it. It's nice that you have hot lights because it's easier to experiment.

Like I said, I don't have as much experience with black. But for black it would be the opposite. You want highlights on the edges of the tubes to make it pop out of the background. So move the lights more above and to the side.

I haven't looked at any of Zack Arias's tutorials. But people love that guy. So he must be doing something right. And Ian's vote of confidence is a damn good testimonial in my book

[kafin8ed]

Hey Jordan, I've been shooting a series of bikes on black backgrounds, almost every bike test we do. The backgrounds may be colored but really I have to treat them as if they are black because that's what color the paper is. All my studio stuff is in camera, I haven't tried any dual exposure stuff yet.

It sounds like you have lights but now you have to figure out a way to control them. Photo John was right when he said separate the subject from the background as much as you can. This also mean you're going to have to use a long lens with a narrow field of view. I light the subject from the sides and the BG can be lit from overhead (1 light) or the sides (1 light on each side).

I also find that flags help out a ton to kill the spill. Flags are a generic term for anything that blocks light. I use them to keep the white subject light off of the black BG. The good thing is flags don't have to be fancy, but they usually need some tweaking to get right. I usually just cut up pieces of cardboard from a bike box and figure out how to place them to keep the key light of the BG. Often times they are taped together with gaffers tape.

[Photo-John]

I also find that flags help out a ton to kill the spill. Flags are a generic term for anything that blocks light.

Also called, "scrims." Good addition, Alan. Big pieces of foam core can be used for reflectors as well as scrims. And you might want to get some black paint if you really want to block light. A black scrim will suck up any extra light way better than a white one or plain cardboard. Briwn cardboard might affect your color balance a little, too.

I love that pick background, Alan! Crazy that it's actually black seamless

[kafin8ed]

It's not BLACK but it's pretty close - really dark grey. Lighter colors work on that better than the BLACK BG.

Another thing I've heard but haven't tried - black velvet - it's much less reflective than paper so spill won't be as much of an issue - ironing all the wrinkles on the other hand could prove to be a major pain. I have a white fabric BG for traveling with and it works but I always have to iron the damn thing.

[jetrim]

Black velvet absolutely works perfectly every time (if you can afford a chunk that large).
As I was reading down the thread, it was the second thing to come to mind, right after "flags".
I think I'd try taping a piece of black seamless all across the back of that overhead softbox, bringing it down to where it's just outside the frame first, and see how that works.

I love that pick background, Alan! Crazy that it's actually black seamless

I recently discover that gels work spectacularly well on black seamless, much better than on a white B/G.

[Photo-John]

You can also buy black velvet seamless. I always wanted some. I don't know if it comes in wide enough rolls for shooting bikes, though: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ckground_.html

[JadynH]

Nice try! on the first photo maybe you try to put on some lighting on the background so it would not look dull then the image will be more emphasized. I'm not that expert in photography but I hope that could help.