Models can smell fear

[caleb]

The purpose of this thread is to share ideas and techniques in dealing with models. I had a frustrating experience my first time with a "real" model. I'm sure that I'm not alone, so hopefully this thread will be valuable.

To be any good, you need to know the technical part inside out - without having to think about it, then you have to push your creativity farther than you thought you could, all while maintaining an aire if confidence - models, much like dogs, can smell fear and apprehension a mile away, and it will show in every shot.

-Jetrim

[Asylum Steve]

The purpose of this thread is to share ideas and techniques in dealing with models...

Yep, could talk all day about this subject. Bottom line is: models are an element of the shot. A piece of the puzzle, but not always the most important piece. The tricky part is, they are people (at least most of the ones I've worked with ), so you have to learn to form a relationship with them and all the psycho-babble bs that goes along with that.

But the results are usually worth the effort...

As for a beginner, I always say try to find models on the same level (experience-wise) as you are. This way you will almost automatically give each other more leeway and hopefully learn to be creative together.

If you end up having the good fortune (or misfortune as the case may be) of getting to work with a professional or experienced model, and you find yourself a little intimidated, honesty is the best policy. Trying to "fake it til you make it" is a big mistake, unless you are so sure of your idea that you absolutely know that great things will happen.

Letting a model know that you are asking for his or her help to elevate the level of your work is a compliment. So is admitting that you are still learning the best way to work and be professional.

Of course one obvious answer is to shoot a lot. And shoot a variety of looks, ideas, and angles. Photography on all levels is taking chances, hit or miss, many mistakes for a handful of great shots.

In the end, a model will not judge you on how many shots failed, but rather how many came out successful...

Oh, and if it helps any, confidence with models snowballs as you create good images and gain experience. As your book gets better, a model with be more confident in your abilities, and more enthusiastic about the next shoot. You will learn what works and what doesn't when preparing models to be photographed and directing them on the set.

All this in turn will help lead to even better shooting!

[caleb]

I did not expect such a timely quality response. Thank you. Sorry to toss all these questions out at once, but here it goes:

Tips for helping to direct posing? Clearly it depends on the situation/scene/props, but I guess some basic stuff I've read would be something like keep joints bent, diagonals>straight lines, keeping arms/legs asymmetrical... are these on the right track? Other suggestions?

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While browsing OMP it occurred to me that all the models seem to get rave reviews. And I guess you really can't do much about that because if you were to be blunt and honest (my specialty) you would get negative reviews as well. Is there any indication of their skill other than their small amount of carefully selected photos? Are there any questions I could ask to better gauge their skill/potential?

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I looked through my photos* and found that the model in question generally seemed ill-prepared (very poor choice of clothing, chipped nail polish, clashing jewlery). Which leads to the question of what is on your checklist for asking models to prepare/bring items?

*I have about 3 decent shots that I would post for critique, but I chose not to pay extra for a model release ($10, but principle) so I don't feel so comfortable posting them when combined with my comments above.

**Last edit, I'd like to reiterate that any issues I had was 90% due to my inexperience. I just think that by talking about and asking the last two questions, 90% will drop to maybe 85%

[Asylum Steve]

Sorry to toss all these questions out at once, but here it goes...

Yeah, a lot of ground to cover, so I'll give you the Cliffnotes version...

Tips for helping to direct posing?

I'm not big on posing guides. Making something that is supposed to flow and be organic formulaic usually doesn't work too well. And each model is different. My advice would be to pull pages from fashion magazines (or online) to use strictly as reference and then have the model mimic the poses. Have a clear idea of the shot you want and then adapt it to the model. Some models like to be static with direction, and some like to move. You need to figure out which they are better at and go with it. Some of both is usually a good idea. Learn key words that give your model direction. In general, you either want a very smooth look (hands arms legs extended), IOW classic "brush strokes", or something against the grain and angular. Mixing the two is usually bad. Symmetry is not necessarily evil, but in my book symmetrical shots need to be PERFECTLY symmetrical (or just one single element asymmetrical).

While browsing OMP it occurred to me that all the models seem to get rave reviews. Is there any indication of their skill other than their small amount of carefully selected photos?

I'm on OMP, but not a huge fan of casting through it. I've had better success with Model Mayhem. Unless you're absolutely convinced of a model's look, personality and potential, the best thing to do is ask other photogs that have worked with them. Most models on these sites list references.

I looked through my photos* and found that the model in question generally seemed ill-prepared (very poor choice of clothing, chipped nail polish, clashing jewlery). Which leads to the question of what is on your checklist for asking models to prepare/bring items?

I have never let a model style a shot, but then I had the luxury of learning to shoot fashion in Miami Beach, where there is always an abundance of styling talent. Truth is, if you want to have the best chance for suscess, you need to learn fashion styling and take control of it yourself. By this of course I mean wardrobe and accessories. I am always on the lookout for clothes and accessories at thrift stores and other places. I tell models to bring as much stuff as they can, but don't count on it to create my looks. Nails you can fix in photoshop...

I have about 3 decent shots that I would post for critique, but I chose not to pay extra for a model release ($10, but principle) so I don't feel so comfortable posting them when combined with my comments above.

Unless you're model is under 18 years old, there's really no risk in posting a shot in a non-commercial capacity. I mean it's certainly not illegal. It would be good to see your work, so we can get you on your way to better results!

Anything else, fire away...

[caleb]

Very, very quick PP. I just did gaussian blur + mask on skin after some wb tweaks in ACR. I have a case of insomnia that's finally calming down, so I don't have time to do more or I may lose my chance to sleep When I spend more time on this, I will even out tones on her face and clean up hair/neck/eyebrows/sharpen/etc. Maybe flip horizontally?

This particular top was incredibly unflattering, so any more body than this was out of the question. My biggest gripe on this shoot was that it was a class about shooting models, but we spent an hour with her in this one position with no explanation about how we should be interacting with her. I should have said something and I really regret it now. Hindsight is 20/20. Glad to have this forum and I'm even glad I went so I know a lot more about what I don't know.

[GB1]

Hey Caleb,

Like Steve said, a pretty deep subject. Like other specialty areas of photography you really have to work at it to get good. (In many ways it may be the hardest area of photography... but also one of the funnest.)

If your first shoot didn't go well I wouldn't sweat it ..one shoot doesn't mean anything.

Regarding the model smelling fear, presumably he or she wants great shots just like you do so I don't see it as being competitive. One can't fake it though - you either know what to do or you don't, and if you don't you have to learn For example, me with posing models...

Best to list a few hints:

- During composition or cropping, don't cut off arms, legs etc at the joint. It won't look right.

- In a side shot have the model dip the shoulder on your side down, inviting you in. The reverse is cutting you out.

- Hands are hard in that they can look out of place on inexperienced models. Not sure why. But having them hold something or grab something, or even adjusting their attire, can work.

- Diagonals are creative in general and look esp good on leg bends.

I like the shot you posted of the model, and the way she interacts with the surroundings. You didn't learn to pose her, but that could be another class.

Yes, I have noticed that OMP and MM comments are overly ~~peachy~~... some are even super peachy, everything's "Spectacular!", "Amazing", "HoT!", ... But considering how sensitive someone might be to criticism of pix of themselves .. well, you can see the difference between someone critiquing them vs critiquing a photographer's work ... we wouldn't take that so personally.

Anyway -- time for you to go out and do another model shoot

[Asylum Steve]

Good tips, Greg. Ok, here's my basic "game plan" for shooting fashion:

PREVISUALIZE - Go into every shoot with specific "looks" and shots in mind. I storyboard all my shots ahead of time (much like videos or films) and figure every detail of lighting, wardrobe, accessories, hair and makeup look, and model poses. You don't need to be this complete, but at least have a plan.

That being said, try to use this preparation as a starting point, meaning don't be afraid to improvise the shots and change the plan as you go. That's sometimes the most fun...

STYLING - IMO, as important as any other element of the shoot. Often what seperates pro fashion work from amateurs and wannabes is the attention to styling. As a shooter, unless you are sure you're going to have professional styling help (and I mean wardrobe as well), you need to take responsibility for as much of the styling as possible.

COMMUNICATION AND MIXING YOUR POSING - No two models are the same, and no two pose or take direction the same way, either. You have to (very quickly sometimes) get a handle on your model's personality, and figure out how you two are going to get on the same page, so you can get the images you want.

I share as a much as possible with my models, so they know what I'm trying to do. Models aren't mind readers. Also, I mix my posing between "static" or "mannequin" posing and a more fluid or moving posing. Most models are better at one than the other.

Shoot a wide variety of poses using slight variations of movement. IOW, direct the model to make small changes in head, arm, leg, hand, and foot positions...

SHOOT IN CLUSTERS - Try to always shoot in small tight groups of frames. Use a multi-shoot mode and squeeze off three or four frames at a time. This helps take care of the little things that mess up shots like eyes closed, blinking, odd smiles, etc. Obviously, this is next to impossible when using a flash, but with available light it should your standard way of shooting.

HARMONY AND CONFLICT - The two main themes of all art. Unless you really know what you're doing, your shots should be one or the other. In case it isn't obvious, harmony is smooth and flowing body parts, with an emphasis on nice facial features and expression, with styling that does not clash.

Conflict is about angles, more emotional expression, more severe shooting technique (camera movement, flash and blur), and perhaps louder styling that pops.

POST PRODUCTION - Don't confuse the shoot with your post-production. You are creating a photo, and the digital capture is simply the RAW material (pun intended). Knowing how to perfectly compose a fashion photo while you're shooting is a great skill, and one not mastered by everyone. If you are unsure of your compositional abilities, shoot wide to get as much visual information as possible, and worry about cropping later in your digital darkroom. Likeiwse, if you have a tough time with selective focus and sharpness (classic fashion techniques), shoot as sharp as possible, and use photoshop tools to add the style in pp.

IMAGE MORGUE - An old school term from the newspaper and magazine business. Simply means a collection of visual reference materials. All shooters should have a file of pictures pulled from magazines or the web to inspire them or to simply remember clever or strong ideas, be it lighting, styling, model looks, or locations for future shoots.

It really has "all been done before", and shooting something similar to someone else's previous work is not palgiarism, not when you add your own models and personality.

BTW, I'll being shooting a fashion test in Miami next weekend. I'll be happy to post and walk everyone through the process...

[Old Timer]

BTW, I'll being shooting a fashion test in Miami next weekend. I'll be happy to post and walk everyone through the process...

Some great advice from you model shooters. I don't do very much if any of this type of photography but have really enjoyed the advice and dialog. I did do a couple of Senior sessions for my niece last month and I felt very much like a fish out of water. I look forward to reading about your upcoming fashion shoot in Miami Steve.

[Asylum Steve]

Some great advice from you model shooters...

Thanks OT. You know, in my mind, fashion shooting is simply an extension of portrait work. A lot of these tips can be applied to both.

Senior shooting? Now to me, that's the TOUGHEST subject of all!

[gahspidy]

Excellent thread, and thanks Steve for all that great in depth advice and tips.

[Shebang]

Thanks OT. You know, in my mind, fashion shooting is simply an extension of portrait work....

That's what I was thinking as I was reading here. I don't aspire to be a model shooter, but this is a very interesting thread with some good tips that could be incorporated in other situations, I think. Thanks to you all for taking the time to post.

[draymorton]

Great thread.

[caleb]

Here's another. Any critique on lighting/posing/etc would really be appreciated. It didn't seem to get much response in the critique forum. The outfit isn't the best, I need to pick up some wedding dresses from a thrift store!

[GB1]

Models may smell fear, but photographers smell opportunity

Check out this post:

http://forums.photographyreview.com/...552#post389552