Flash for night football

[JETA]

Can you please give me your best tips. I know there are some here and there are the board, but I'd love to see them in one spot.

My pics have been less than stellar this year. I shoot football without flash, but find that I'm not able to accomplish what I want any more. Everything seems to be oof. I've been reading until my eyes cross about flash for night football.

The more I'm reading the more I hearing do not use ettl. Manual, two stops underexposed, f/4 and flash comp +1?

My head seriously hurts. I read for hours today.

My camera settings usually end up around 1/250th - 1/320th, iso 3200, f/2.8.

[dhyravy]

The flash comp won't be available with Manual flash, just output power levels. I use either 1/4 or 1/2 power depending on the field lights. eTTL is actually helpful when the plays come in close to you. As for the "f4", I wish I could f4 but the reality on HS fields is that many times I'm at f2.8 with flash and ISO 800-1000. The "2 stops underexposed" is due to having to overpower the ambient enough to prevent motion blur from the limited shutter speed with flash.

Since I seem to remember that you're now shooting in a college stadium, you may be able to get close with eTTL flash, (possibly with a little comp) ISO 800, your max sync speed for the shutter, (I think yours is 1/250) and maybe f4 if the lights are good.

[JETA]

The flash comp won't be available with Manual flash, just output power levels. I use either 1/4 or 1/2 power depending on the field lights. eTTL is actually helpful when the plays come in close to you. As for the "f4", I wish I could f4 but the reality on HS fields is that many times I'm at f2.8 with flash and ISO 800-1000. The "2 stops underexposed" is due to having to overpower the ambient enough to prevent motion blur from the limited shutter speed with flash.

Since I seem to remember that you're now shooting in a college stadium, you may be able to get close with eTTL flash, (possibly with a little comp) ISO 800, your max sync speed for the shutter, (I think yours is 1/250) and maybe f4 if the lights are good.

Thank you Daniel. I've been reading and rereading a thread on a Canon forum and they guy started out saying to use ettl (+1) and then switched to manual. This is where I get confused as I'm a flash idiot.

When you shoot with the settings you quoted what is your shutter speed normally? Do you manually zoom your flash? Are you shooting 2 stops underexposed when using 1/4 to 1/2 power?

Also I'm curious if you meter off the turf.

Sorry for all of the questions.

I've also been seeing some shots at 6400 (iso) with the mark III and zero flash that are amazing. The shooter used awb and the color is amazing and the noise levels are not bad at all. I used 6400 once and didn't like the results. I think I maybe should give that another try.

This season has be rough. I'm really struggling.

Thank you!

[dhyravy]

I don't have to overpower ambient since both of my cameras can sync at any shutter speed. I usually use a shutter from 1/320 to 1/500 depending on how much ambient I want to allow into the shots. The manual settings work fine until the play comes in close and then you'll overexpose. I would probably opt for TTL flash except I don't own a Nikon flash.

As far as using high ISO and no flash, the MKIII does a great job with low light. I just like the crispness of flash shots and they tend to print better in the papers I shoot for. One advantage of not using flash is that you can still use Continuous Shutter which isn't really doable with flash.

[Loupey]

Forgive me for commenting (I'm no sports shooter and I'm not so sure I'm even allowed to post in this forum ) but it seems to me that night games with flash look very unnatural. But my aversion to strobes is universal - I own 4 but try desperately to never use them.

...I've also been seeing some shots at 6400 (iso) with the mark III and zero flash that are amazing. The shooter used awb and the color is amazing and the noise levels are not bad at all. I used 6400 once and didn't like the results. I think I maybe should give that another try...

I shot one HS night game at ISO 3200, f/2.8, 1/350s - enough stopping power to freeze a quarterback in mid-stride - without flash. I did another game test at ISO 6400, f/2.8, 1/1000s. Noise wasn't too bad. I'll take the noise over a "flashed look" IMO.

[dhyravy]

On pretty much all of the fields around here it's a way of life. I have a friend who shoots ambient on the home field here in town and he's pretty much ISO 3200-6400 to get anything. The biggest driver for me is that almost none of the publications I shoot for will use a shot that isn't flashed. And for indoor sports like basketball, there's a reason that people like SI and AP spend fairly large amounts to have strobes mounted in the arenas. You just can't get those results any other way.

[JETA]

Forgive me for commenting (I'm no sports shooter and I'm not so sure I'm even allowed to post in this forum ) but it seems to me that night games with flash look very unnatural. But my aversion to strobes is universal - I own 4 but try desperately to never use them.



I shot one HS night game at ISO 3200, f/2.8, 1/350s - enough stopping power to freeze a quarterback in mid-stride - without flash. I did another game test at ISO 6400, f/2.8, 1/1000s. Noise wasn't too bad. I'll take the noise over a "flashed look" IMO.

Of course you are allowed!

A lot of people have to use a flash to get anything on the dungeon fields that hs's across America have. I've tried to stay away from flash, but have been using it in the end zone this year. Otherwise it's like shooting in a closet.

I had an aversion to strobes, but started getting sick of my blurry shots and lack of color. Not to mention I want to grow and learn.

Daniel, thank you for the wonderful info again! I'm going to reread it all now and come back in the AM and read again.

Thanks!

[Loupey]

And for indoor sports like basketball, there's a reason that people like SI and AP spend fairly large amounts to have strobes mounted in the arenas.

Multiple remote strobes would be the best scenario but not practical for the average shooter.

Anyway, I've been on a personal quest for over a year that "if I can see it, I can shoot it (without flash)". As the tools get better (high ISO performance), more techniques become available to get the shot other than using strobes (internal stabilization, high speed lenses, etc.). I recently spent some time traveling through Japan and came back with over 5K images - 0 with flash and about 30% were nightlife shots.

Sports requires average to excellent lighting for the safety of the players. I think newer cameras will continue to open up shooting opportunities which were only recently deemed impossible to shoot without strobes.

Equipment will improve. But physics will not change. The inverse-squared-law of light is a visual nightmare on a large scene. Use flash only for fill if you must use it.

But I have watched the night games from the endzones and it is dark indeed from that direction

[DHMN69]

Even though I'm still learning and relatively "new" to shooting anything involving sports.. I think one thing not mentioned is if you're going to use any type of flash from your camera setup and not something set up high above play.. be careful not to distract players with your flash if you're in a gym or hockey arena situation...it can be dangerous for one thing andyou definitely don't want to cause any trouble for yourself by flashing in the line of sight of a player.

I've seen football photographers taking flash pictures from the sideline with players coming at them..and seen it in baseball photographers taking flash pictures from the side the batter is facing, of the pitcher making his delivery, and in one instance have seen an umpire later speak to a photographer who changed his position.

I guess I'm just saying that while everyone wants their pictures to be top notch, don't (as mentioned in other threads but not on the subject unless I missed it) be noticed because you're "blinding" people with your flash.

[JETA]

The biggest driver for me is that almost none of the publications I shoot for will use a shot that isn't flashed.

I've heard this time and time again from newspaper shooters.

[dhyravy]

I prefer remote triggered flash for pretty much everything I shoot besides football. Even with all 4 strobes that I have available, there is just too much field to cover effectively with remote mounted flash. As far as the players being distracted, I have talked to hundreds of them over the years, as well as playing multiple sports myself in HS and I have yet to find one that even noticed. Most of them reply with "what flash?".