Need help picking a Sony DSLR

[MplsLaw]

I am looking for a Sony DSLR, but am somewhat confused. My father has a Konica Minolta and I like it, but I'm looking to get something that is a little bit better than his model. I'd like for it to take low light photos (night photography), also, I have one of those studio in a box products that I use for taking pictures of wood working projects once they're completed and for sale. My father's camera takes awful photos with it, I was hoping I could find something that would work a bit better, although my father's camera probably just needs a macro lens to take better photos with the box. I also wish to take daytime nature photography, and of course photos of friends. In the past, I've become the go-to guy for taking group photos in place of a professional photographer. While I have no idea why people think I'm even remotely qualified to do so when I know next to nothing about cameras - and your guess is as good as mine, I'd like to at least have a camera that can help me out a little bit (if such a miracle camera exists).

My main questions though, and the real reason I'm posting this is to ask, what is the difference between the different groups of DSLRs on Sony's website. What is a Traditional DSLR vs. a Translucent mirror DSLR, vs. a professional DSLR. What are the differences, and what do you recommend. Also, in addition to a group recommedation, a model recommedation would be fantastic too, but if that's asking too much I understand.

I've been thinking about getting my own DSLR for years now, pretty much ever since my father bought one, and am ready to just take the plunge, but if I'm going to spend the money, I'd like to spend it on something that will technologically not become obsolete overnight and will serve me well for years to come.

Thank you.

[OldClicker]

Most of the terminology is way more confusing than necessary. The three groups (names are marketing):

Professional DSLR- Sony's 'full frame' bodies. This means that they have sensors as large as 35mm film. The other two categories are APS-C sensors that are about the size of the 24mm cartridge APS film. Full frame is more expensive but the larger sensor has advantages especially in areas like landscape and portrait. Few actually need an FF, but they're nice.

Traditional DSLR - These are APS-C cameras that use a mirror to direct the light to the viewfinder which flips up out of the way to take the picture - (Digital) Single Lens Reflex. (The pro above are also DSLR.) The smaller sensor means that they can be made cheaper. The smaller sensors are often called 'cropped sensor' cameras because the image is smaller as if an FF were cropped. (Marketers like to call this a 1.5 crop, though it's actually 0.66 the area of an FF???)

Single Lens Translucent (NOT DSLR) or SLT- This is a new implementation of a design where the mirror is mostly transparent (therefore called translucent???) so that it does not have to flip up out of the way. The driving force for this technology is video because it allows full time Phase Detect focus (the faster focus) that the SLR type cannot. This technology may or may not be good enough to displace the DSLR in the future. Sony is betting that it will.

What camera and lenses does your dad have?

Not knowing more or your budget, my current 'off the cuff' recommendation is the A55 (SLT) if you are interested in video and the A580 (DSLR) if not.

Terry

[MplsLaw]

Those were exactly the two I was looking at. They're both the top of the line in type/group correct? The professional line looks great, but it's out of my budget. The two mentioned are within my budget.

I understood how SLT worked (although I didn't know not to call it a DSLR), but I didn't know what the point was. So it's just to add video? Are there any still photography benefits with SLT v. DSLR? Also are there any benefits the other way around?

As for lenses, he never bought any. He uses only the lense that came with his camera. He believes that all of the separate lenses available are just a waste of money.

Personally, with whatever I buy, I plan to purchase a telephoto and macro lens for it on top of the included lens.

I was also curious about image stabilization. A guy at a Minneapolis camera store tried to sell me on a Nikon claiming that they had mechanical stabilization and claimed that it was vastly superior to all competitors.

One more thing, time lapse photography. Do either of the two cameras mentioned have the ability to take a photo (while on a tripod) every X number of seconds or minutes? My original cheapo Olympus had that back in like 2002 whereas my father's DSLR doessn't it seems.

Also, I should point out that I'm very tech savvy and never have trouble teaching myself how to use new electronics, so there's no worry of me buying something that's over my head. Thanks

[OldClicker]

Those were exactly the two I was looking at. They're both the top of the line in type/group correct? The professional line looks great, but it's out of my budget. The two mentioned are within my budget.

They are both currently the top in their category.

For a DSLR, the discontinued, higher level A700 can still be found and is a very Minolta-like design. The imaging is a few years old and, though excellent, lags a little with lower light (often called high ISO capability). Also, no video.

For SLT, the next level ('A77'?) is due out this summer and looks very promising. I wouldn't wait, but this may fit your plans better.

I understood how SLT worked (although I didn't know not to call it a DSLR), but I didn't know what the point was. So it's just to add video? Are there any still photography benefits with SLT v. DSLR? Also are there any benefits the other way around?

No, the SLT is not just for video. It offers a very different set of features than the DSLRs in this price range (or much, much more) like 10 frames per second and an electronic view finder. It's a different (and exciting) concept. Look at the specs and reviews of both the A55 and A580 carefully and see what matters to you.

As for lenses, he never bought any. He uses only the lense that came with his camera. He believes that all of the separate lenses available are just a waste of money.

Personally, with whatever I buy, I plan to purchase a telephoto and macro lens for it on top of the included lens.

Most new photographers are very excited about the features of the new cameras when they get them but soon find that it is the lens that really counts. For Sony, you have the options of some great older Minolta glass, third party glass and current offerings that include Sony/Zeiss. For me, the point of an interchangeable lens camera is being able to explore what the different lenses can do and images they can better capture.

I was also curious about image stabilization. A guy at a Minneapolis camera store tried to sell me on a Nikon claiming that they had mechanical stabilization and claimed that it was vastly superior to all competitors.

Any claim that this brand is better than that brand is nonsense (and they all have mechanical stabilization). There are differences, but what is better depends upon your needs. I switched to Sony (from Canon) for two features that were important to me:

- In body image stabilization (IBIS) makes all of my lenses stabilized; including excellent 20 year old Minolta glass. Brands with the stabilization in the lens, obviously, require you to buy lenses with this feature.

- I'm a big fan of Live View (using the LCD on the back as opposed to the viewfinder) and Sony is the only brand with a phase detect focus (faster than contrast focus) Live View. I simply couldn't be without it.

One more thing, time lapse photography. Do either of the two cameras mentioned have the ability to take a photo (while on a tripod) every X number of seconds or minutes? My original cheapo Olympus had that back in like 2002 whereas my father's DSLR doessn't it seems.

No, not many cameras at this level have this ability. Cheap remotes (<$50) can be bought that will do this very well.

Also, I should point out that I'm very tech savvy and never have trouble teaching myself how to use new electronics, so there's no worry of me buying something that's over my head. Thanks

Also, since you are not relying on using your father's old lenses, you are not tied to Sony. I love Sony, but look around. Just beware of the My Brand (or The Brand I Sell) Is Best advice.

Good luck in whatever you get and I hope to see some images from you soon.

Terry

[MplsLaw]

Thank you OldClicker.

[MplsLaw]

I went to a camera store today to again feel the a580 and a55 but they were out. The lady then tried to sell me on a Nikon 700 and claimed that its FPS capability surpasses that of the Sony a55. 12fps she claimed as opposed to 7 with the a55 (I thought the specs on the a55 were 10?). Anyways, I got confused. If I understand correctly, every time a DSLR takes a photo, a mechanism has to flip the mirror out of the way. That does not apply to an SLT. This would (I imagine) result in ,more FPS than the vast majority of DSLRs (as you pointed out.

So how can it be?

Also, where can I find specs on the upcoming a77 and approximately when will it hit retailers? Also is there already an MSRP?

[OldClicker]

As far as I can tell, the D700 is 5 fps and costs $2350???

Here is an image put together by Photo-John (he runs this site) using the 10 fps on an A55.

Sony Alpha A55 Snowboard Sequence

Your understanding of how an SLR works is correct. The SLT design does make it easier to get higher fps, though there is at least one DSLR ($5000+) that can do 10 fps.

There really aren't any specs yet on the 'A77' (not even an official name), but they showed a prototype in a transparent case at a recent show in Japan, The last bodies that they showed in such cases were out within 6 months and rumors seem to confirm a mid-summer release. As far as actually being able to purchase one - ???? I'm guessing that they are going to be hard to find for quite some time. No MSRP - speculation has it from $1000 - $1600.

Terry

[Anbesol]

Another thing that is extremely noteworthy about the SLT series - NO MIRROR SLAP! This may seem minor, but once you've heard that mirror slap tens of thousands of times, there is a greater appreciation for silence. I photographed a wedding that had a rather quiet ambience, and seemed like that mirror slap screamed! It disturbs animals that you may be photographing, etc.. The SLT series are significantly quieter thanks to this feature

[MplsLaw]

Back in February I was about to buy the a580, but then I thought perhaps I should wait until specs on the next Sony camera releases are put out before buying so I don't buy and then have a "I should have waited." moment.

I have decided that I would prefer a DSLR over an SLT mainly because I don't want to lose the light that gets redirected to the secondary & AF sensor and also because the lack of an optical viewfinder could become a problem.

I understand that the upcoming A700 replacement (A77?) will be SLT, as will all newly developed alpha cameras, however is there any word on a successor to the a580 DSLR being already in the pipe? If a DSLR mid-range or prosumer successor will be coming out this year, I'll hold off for it.

Any information would be fantastic.

[OldClicker]

Back in February I was about to buy the a580, but then I thought perhaps I should wait until specs on the next Sony camera releases are put out before buying so I don't buy and then have a "I should have waited." moment.

I have decided that I would prefer a DSLR over an SLT mainly because I don't want to lose the light that gets redirected to the secondary & AF sensor and also because the lack of an optical viewfinder could become a problem.

I understand that the upcoming A700 replacement (A77?) will be SLT, as will all newly developed alpha cameras, however is there any word on a successor to the a580 DSLR being already in the pipe? If a DSLR mid-range or prosumer successor will be coming out this year, I'll hold off for it.

Any information would be fantastic.

Speculation at the moment is that the A560/580 will be the last APS SLRs from Sony and that's too bad because I think that they are excellent values. I wouldn't worry about the 'light loss' from the SLT - the final image is what counts. - Terry

[MplsLaw]

I suppose what concerns me about the minor light loss is that i tend to take a lot of pictures in low light conditions. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I worry that the minor light loss might skew color accuracy and/or increase the minimum external (prior to the translucent mirror) lux required to produce an image as compared to a traditional dslr where the mirror flips up providing a clear shot from the lens to the sensor.

I don't know enough though to know if my concern is justified.

[Anbesol]

The only thing effected by light loss is the rated ISO sensitivities. Basically just meaning that ISO 100 is actually more like ISO 133 (or somewhere around that). It still shoots up to ISO 25600 in boost, 12800 normal, with pretty solid and comparable image grain. The 3200 is a pretty solid grain, 6400 and 12800 not very usable.

Anyway, the point being is that light loss is a non-issue that in no way affects your picture taking or the quality of images.

In fact, the fact that its an EVF with an electronic display is even better for low light. The EVF can amplify the amount of light visible in the EVF. In fact, the EVF is basically a live exposure feedback. Thats a pretty significant deal and quite a helpful feature in low light.

[NoKnees]

So far, all the test in the field verify two things:

1: Yes, there is a minor light loss due to the design.
2: The improvements in sensor technology make this sensor, after light loss, more sensitive and better in low light situations that other Sony cameras to date, and comparable to or better than other DSLRS in their price range by other manufacturers..

So, I wouldn't worry too much about it. And as far as other models or updates, it looks like all future Sony's DSLR's are going to go the SLT route, so don't hold your breath for an update to the a580 at this point. It would appear by all indications that it is the last of it's kind... Even talks about the next FF camera are that it'll be SLT..

There are some $50 off deals going on Sony cameras right now if you are buying. There's an udpate for the a33 (a35) coming out shortly, if the photos and rumor mill are accurate. Otherwise, it's the a77 announced around July with shipping expected in October...

[MplsLaw]

Interesting, I'm rethinking my concerns and am examining once again the SLT option, especially considering that if I bought an a580, I'd be possibly buying a discontinued technology (at least by Sony). One more thing I'm curious about is HDR photography. I am aware that the A33 and A55 have a built in HDR feature, however the images I've seen in reviews testing it weren't spectacular making it difficult to judge the camera's abilities. How do the current SLT offerings by Sony fare when it comes to wanting to take HDR photos, either using the built in feature, or in taking individual images to be combined via external software? I imagine that this is more a question of the sensor's abilities than anything else.

Speculation based on the little credible information out there for the upcoming a77 (or whatever they decide to name their to-be-released next in the SLT line) is fine too. I think I read that it is believed that it will likely have a better sensor than their current consumer offerings.

[OldClicker]

Interesting, I'm rethinking my concerns and am examining once again the SLT option, especially considering that if I bought an a580, I'd be possibly buying a discontinued technology (at least by Sony). One more thing I'm curious about is HDR photography. I am aware that the A33 and A55 have a built in HDR feature, however the images I've seen in reviews testing it weren't spectacular making it difficult to judge the camera's abilities. How do the current SLT offerings by Sony fare when it comes to wanting to take HDR photos, either using the built in feature, or in taking individual images to be combined via external software? I imagine that this is more a question of the sensor's abilities than anything else.

Speculation based on the little credible information out there for the upcoming a77 (or whatever they decide to name their to-be-released next in the SLT line) is fine too. I think I read that it is believed that it will likely have a better sensor than their current consumer offerings.

I may sound like I keep jumping back and forth, but I would not let 'discontinued technology' stop me from getting the A580. What I'm saying is - find which current camera does the job FOR YOU and buy it. Unless 'gear' is your hobby, the technology doesn't matter; only the camera's functions help you get the image you want.

From the examples I've seen, the in camera HDR (which all of the mention cameras have) works very well if increasing the perceived dynamic range is the result you are looking for. If you are looking for the more ‘processed’ tone mapping look, then you will probably be disappointed. If desktop HDR from bracketed shots is very important to you, check the bracketing ability of the cameras. I think some of these are limited to 3 shots at plus/minus 0.7 EV. Something with a plus/minus 2 EV works better. Of course, you can always do a manual bracket.

Speculation on the A77 is fun, but existing cameras take pictures now.

Terry

[MplsLaw]

Fair enough. All I can say is that I'm being so careful in choosing what to buy not because I'm into gear, but actually quite the opposite - there is a high chance that whichever camera I go with will be used for at least 7-8 years, probably longer. The last camera that I bought was purchased in 2002. My father's camera was bought in 2005 or 2006 and that was the first camera (period) that he's bought since the mid 1980s. In fact the only person in my family who has bought multiple digital cameras is ironically my brother who hardly ever uses any of them at all - hence why I find it ironic.

As for tone mapping, yes that is the look I like. I love the highly saturated, vibrant look that it creates.

[misdee]

The A55 and A580 use the same highly regarded Sony sensor as the Nikon 5100 and Pentax K5 .

Tests have shown marginal differences between them , but all have state of the current art low light capability .Only a much better lens than the kit lens would be capable of showing the detail the camera is capable of .

As for the A55 or A580 , you do need to check whether the strangeness of an electronic viewfinder , or composing on a screen is fine with you - I prefer the clearer image of an SLR .

I would like an A580 body to complement my new A290 because it may be the last Sony DSLR before the mirrorless cameras take over the world LOL .

I bought the A290 'cos it is so uncluttered , has a reasonable sensor , is light and reasonably compact , reminiscent of my Minolta 404si , and was the least expensive entry level DSLR available !
I have a Panasonic G1 with electronic finder which is fine most of the time , but flashes in low light and panning with the camera . It also goes blank for a moment between shots which I find disconcerting .

[bigmikee]

thanks for this thread, saved me time

[Anbesol]

This is a good thread .

However

The A55 and A580 use the same highly regarded Sony sensor as the Nikon 5100 and Pentax K5 .

Though true it almost should be said the other way around, because Sony is the manufacturer of the sensor. In fact, Sony is the manufacturer to almost every single Nikon and Pentax DSLR sensor as well.

[OldClicker]

This is a good thread .

However
Though true it almost should be said the other way around, because Sony is the manufacturer of the sensor. In fact, Sony is the manufacturer to almost every single Nikon and Pentax DSLR sensor as well.

The D7000 also uses the same sensor. - Terry