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Thread: Ff??

  1. #1
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
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    Ff??

    Here are some Dxo marks, my main question is what glass will go on a FF Sony? Has is got to be a special lens for FF or will they all fit? I might could swing for the 850 at the discount price and pick up the glass later. But as you can see there really isn't much difference in the three DXO marks. If glass is going to cost me out the a$$ I had rather stick with the 580.I also read where Sony actually made Nikon sensors

    http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cam.../(brand3)/Sony
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

    Sony a99/a7R

  2. #2
    Member PWhite214's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    I have read that the Nikon sensors are manufactured by Sony.

    Most of the lenses made for Sony AF DSLRS are full frame lenses. There are exceptions, quick trip to the manufacturers website should clear up any confusion. All the Konica Minolta AF lenses, to my knowledge, are full frame.

    Phil

  3. #3
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    Re: Ff??

    All of the old Minolta Maxxum era AF aka, A-Mount lenses were full frame. Most of the Konica-Minolta A-Mount lenses were full frame, with the last couple released after their 7d and 5d digital cameras. The ones I know of off hand were the 18-70mm kit lens, and the 11-18mm Ultra-Wide...

    The older Minolta Maxxum lenses work great on the a850/a900, as well as the other aps-c (crop sensor) models like the a580...

    Sony's lenses are a mix of crop and full frame. Their Zeiss lenses are the best FF ones, with the exception of the 16-80mm as that is the only Zeiss crop lens...

    The ultimate lens guide for Sony/Minolta lenses is over at Dyxum.com. A-mount lens database (lenses for Minolta and Sony DSLR cameras) Their reviews show if it's crop or FF, all the specs, value, user reviews, etc... Good database...

    I currently shoot with an a900... Most of my glass is Minolta, but I have managed to get my hands on a couple new lenses and they are pretty sweet... The 24-70mm Zeiss & Sony 70-400mm G... Quite nice... However, the most versatile walk around for FF, when the light is good, is the old Minolta 28-135mm lens. It's heavy, built like a tank, and good wide open, and excellent to vary sharp stopped down a notch or two...

    And yes, Sony has manufactured some of Nikons better sensors... Nikon made some design tweaks of their own, but the baseline work was Sony, as well as the fabrication... You can google more info on that stuff.

    Oh, and you can use the non-FF lenses on the a850, but it'll crop down to a 12mp aps-c image, depending on the lens attached... Some just show severe vignetting instead, but can be used FF.

  4. #4
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    To add to the above.

    The cropped sensor lenses are called DT by Sony/Minolta.

    If you put a recognized DT lens on the Sony FF bodies they will automatically go to 12mp cropped image - you have no choice. If it is a third party cropped A-mount, you may get some vignette depending on the lens or you can choose to go to the cropped image.

    Another lens database. Minolta/Konica Minolta/Sony Alpha lens data

    With the files from the 24mp sensor, be prepared for significantly slower computing once you get them to the desktop.

    The sensor in the A850 is the same as the one in the Nikon D3X (as well as the Sony A900). Also, the D7000 and A580, which you have in your comparison, are both the same Sony sensor.

    The old SR-mount Minolta manual focus lenses do NOT fit the A-mount. They are generally labeled as MC or MD. Minolta switched to the auto focus A-mount in 1985.

    Be aware that the A850 is discontinued. They still sell the A900 full frame. Best RUMORS say that a new Sony FF will be out (or at least announced) in 2012.

    All I can think of.

    Terry
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    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
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    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
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    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  5. #5
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    Thanks all. It is certainly tempting to go FF.
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

    Sony a99/a7R

  6. #6
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    So the 850 should have close to the same IQ as the D3x? Or is there a different processor? More bells and whistles. Why such a huge difference in price? Perfomance, FPS and so on?
    I realize it is discontinued.
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

    Sony a99/a7R

  7. #7
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg McCary View Post
    Here are some Dxo marks, my main question is what glass will go on a FF Sony? Has is got to be a special lens for FF or will they all fit? I might could swing for the 850 at the discount price and pick up the glass later. But as you can see there really isn't much difference in the three DXO marks...
    I find there is a major difference in the DXOmarks between these cameras that I have always had difficulty in understanding. Check out the dynamic range..

    The Nikon D3X has 1.5 stops more dynamic range than the Sony 850. It seems like they share the same 24MPix sensor base but the image processor is certainly different. I suspect that Nikon have modified the sensor somehow. The 12Mpix sensors in the D3, D3S and D700 is a Nikon design not made by Sony as far as anyone can tell.

    The Sony 580 uses the 16Mpix APS-C Sony sensor also used in the Nikon D7000 and one of the Pentax models. This is the very latest technology and it's so good that it makes me wonder if I really need to go to full frame. Do I really need 24Mpix? (See latest discussion in the Canon forum)

    Addendum: Difference in price. The D3X is pitched against the Canon 1DS which has always been at about $8000. They find customers at that price, so why reduce? It's much cheaper than Hasselblad. Sony are trying to break into the full-frame market so they put a much more reasonable price on their system. You should check out the Canon 5DMk2 as well, also full frame but about the same price as the Sony
    Charles

    Nikon D800, D7200, Sony RX100m3
    Not buying any more gear this year. I hope

  8. #8
    Senior Shooter Greg McCary's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais View Post
    I find there is a major difference in the DXOmarks between these cameras that I have always had difficulty in understanding. Check out the dynamic range..

    The Nikon D3X has 1.5 stops more dynamic range than the Sony 850. It seems like they share the same 24MPix sensor base but the image processor is certainly different. I suspect that Nikon have modified the sensor somehow. The 12Mpix sensors in the D3, D3S and D700 is a Nikon design not made by Sony as far as anyone can tell.

    The Sony 580 uses the 16Mpix APS-C Sony sensor also used in the Nikon D7000 and one of the Pentax models. This is the very latest technology and it's so good that it makes me wonder if I really need to go to full frame. Do I really need 24Mpix? (See latest discussion in the Canon forum)

    Addendum: Difference in price. The D3X is pitched against the Canon 1DS which has always been at about $8000. They find customers at that price, so why reduce? It's much cheaper than Hasselblad. Sony are trying to break into the full-frame market so they put a much more reasonable price on their system. You should check out the Canon 5DMk2 as well, also full frame but about the same price as the Sony
    Charles I have looked at the 5D I am scared of the price of glass. I am really not one to own a lot. A good landscape lens and I am fine. I will keep the Oly E5 and the 50-200mm for shooting my daughters soocer games. But I really get so close to the action the 12-60mm works well for that too. The Oly lenses are the best I have ever owned. I don't intend on switching brands. The x2 crop factor is a nice feature when you want to get some extra reach.
    But I agree that the IQ of the APS sensors are so good why go FF and pay a premium price. Plus the Sony has in body IS and twilight mode. A couple of features that really interest me and I could use. The Nex is quirky but an awesome little camera. If Sony would come out with some good sharp lenses, primes, it would probably be my main street camera. I know I can use other lenses but have read some pretty bad reviews on the adapter, slow focus. Not good for street shooting. I am enjoying using my Voigtlander 28mm on it right now. With the crop factor, focus peaking and the nice LCD, not to mention the great DOF of the 28mm at F/8. I am really impressed. I am practicing pre focusing and hip shooting. Really trying new angles and techniques.
    I have looked hard at the D7000 but with the price difference between it and the 580 I am not sure if the D7000 is the best choice. I have read some really bad reviews on Sony customer service though. I am sure Nikons CS would be top rated?
    I give Olympus five stars for CS. They are so cool do deal with. Thanks for the input Charles.
    I am like Barney Fife, I have a gun but Andy makes me keep the bullet in my pocket..

    Sony a99/a7R

  9. #9
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    If you really like the NEX, I would wait a bit. Sony is apparently coming out with an adapter that adds SLT capability (including PDAF, motor for screw drive lenses and EVF) to the NEX. Don't know what NEX models it will fit though. The Sony announcement for all the new stuff (including 2 new NEX, 3 E-mount lenses) is Aug 25.

    BTW - The Canon 5DMk2 is $500 (25%) more than even the full price for the A850. That may seem like nothing when you are considering $8000 bodies, but it's more than the total cost of my first new DSLR including the kit lens.

    Terry
    -----------------
    I am no better than you. I critique to teach myself to see.
    -----------------
    Feel free to edit my photos or do anything else that will help me learn.
    -----------------
    Sony/Minolta - way more gear than talent.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    What is PDAF?

    Greg - I think August 25th will give us all a better idea of which cameras and lens get our money.

    That sounds good about the NEX-7, I've heard a lot about that and it may be a good option. I think theres a bit of a bad taste in my mouth from the nex 3 and 5, for some reason in an attempt to make it "user friendly" they ended up making it cumbersome to use. Pressing 5 buttons to get to white balance!? WTF?! I've really liked the NEX function and design, but the interface is, in my opinion, annoying and terrible. It might be good for sally soccer mom but it irritated me.
    - Charlie

    Feel free to edit and repost my work as a part of your critique.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Anbesol's Avatar
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    Re: Ff??

    Oh, 'phase detect auto focus' lol, never seen it abbreviated.
    - Charlie

    Feel free to edit and repost my work as a part of your critique.

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