Vineyard by the River

**Old Timer** · 05-20-2004, 08:41 AM

Here are a couple that I am not at all sure of. If I was better with PS I think I could improve them, but my attemps failed. Are these images worth fooling with or are they one's to be forgotten? D70 and 18-80mm ISO 400.

**Sebastian** · 05-20-2004, 09:05 AM

The first one works very well for me. Colors are nicely saturated, the leading lines take me to the interesting building, it all works. Is it a great image? I would say no, it still has something lack, although I'm not sure what that is. But it is still a very good image, one that I spent quite a while looking at.

How could you have improved it? Different light comes to mind first. I would love to see it during a very warm sunset or sunrise.

The second image doesn't do anything for me. It looks like just trying a different angle. I think the leading lines of the trees distract from the strong tree element in the left of the frame, making it feel disjointed.

Young Shooter · 05-20-2004, 11:37 AM

well it has good frameing but i dont like the lighting involved, its to dark, where is this picture taken?

**Old Timer** · 05-21-2004, 08:30 AM

Thanks for the comments. I was going for a kind of surreal type image here and trying to emphasize the lushness of the vineyard. A little difficult given the difference in light value from the sky to the vegetation. The barn was an interesting structure and adds to the first photo I believe. You rightly point out that the second lack something in the presentation. I liked adding more of the tree on the left, but that was about it. This is a quaint little winery on the Ohio River with a very nice resturant where they also market the wine. My wife and I celebrated our 32 wedding aniversary there a couple of days ago with a nice steak and a bottle of their finest.

natatbeach · 05-21-2004, 01:35 PM

I don't know what it is about the first but it just held me there forever and a day...
The composition overall is good and the colors and saturation (and lack there of in some areas) is just the right balance,,,Ithe lighting seemed to be a dawn because it's a bit dark but not bad. I would like to see it cropped differently to cut out the tree in theupper left corner...

if surreal was the effect you were working towards you have certainly attained that goal...if it were to boil down to personal opinion I'd say... htis is a very nice image...I agree with Sebastian and I would love to see you venture out and do a reshoot in different lighting conditions...nice...

**Old Timer** · 05-21-2004, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natatbeach

I don't know what it is about the first but it just held me there forever and a day...
The composition overall is good and the colors and saturation (and lack there of in some areas) is just the right balance,,,Ithe lighting seemed to be a dawn because it's a bit dark but not bad. I would like to see it cropped differently to cut out the tree in theupper left corner...

if surreal was the effect you were working towards you have certainly attained that goal...if it were to boil down to personal opinion I'd say... htis is a very nice image...I agree with Sebastian and I would love to see you venture out and do a reshoot in different lighting conditions...nice...

Thanks for your comments and observations. I would llike to get there early one morning or on a evening when the light is a little better. I took this between dinner courses as Joy and I were celebrating our anniversary. It was about 8 PM and the light was not the best. The tree in the upper left was left in to preserve the angle on the bank below that I felt was more important to the composition than the distraction of the limb. I do love the colors of the vineyard and the flow of line down the rows of vines. I wish that the light had been better and I had encountered a more dramatic sky, but the meal was excellent and the wine superb so I feel very good about the whole evening. Thanks again for taking the time to comment on this image you are always very respectful of everyones work and give constructive advice.

natatbeach · 05-21-2004, 02:02 PM

I liked the light in this----those rows of grapes were beautiful--- did you get to go close rthan that... I really thought it was good shot just wanna see a few different takes on it...;) since I can't be there...

kamboura · 05-21-2004, 03:40 PM

I like the second one much more. The surreal look is there for sure...if it was more foggy... ooohh.. it would have been way cooler. Although I was kind of hoping to see that barn/house at the end of the lines in the second one, and with same ratio of shore to vines.
Do you have any pictures from the opposite side of the barn, It looks like the vines would lead your eyes to the barn on the other side.

Seb · 05-21-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Timer

Here are a couple that I am not at all sure of. If I was better with PS I think I could improve them, but my attemps failed. Are these images worth fooling with or are they one's to be forgotten? D70 and 18-80mm ISO 400.

Hello Old Timer,

First of all happy anniversary! You are a gifted man for having found a soulmate to spend your life with (but I know that you know it considering how you are talking about her).

As for the pictures, I'd say that I like the first one best mainly due to the composition. The perspective on that one is truly interesting. However, I would have slightly cropped the left side of the frame to get rid of the few leaves that are there (there is not enough of the tree to justify leaving it there as far as I am concerned). The fog on the second picture give an interesting effect but the picture itself doesn't work for me. Having that fog on the first picture might have been interesting though.

regards

Seb

**gahspidy** · 05-21-2004, 11:42 PM

I like the first one as others have stated. I would only clone out the few leaves hanging down in the upper left frame.. yes better lighting, or different lighting i might say would or might make a better image, but you have a nice mood here with great perspective. The second shot only seems to substitute the barn on the right with a part tree on the left. I like the barn in the shot alot better.

**Old Timer** · 05-22-2004, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gahspidy

I like the first one as others have stated. I would only clone out the few leaves hanging down in the upper left frame.. yes better lighting, or different lighting i might say would or might make a better image, but you have a nice mood here with great perspective. The second shot only seems to substitute the barn on the right with a part tree on the left. I like the barn in the shot alot better.

I appreciate the replies from everyone on these images. And you are kind of right about the second picture, I was trying to include the tree, but also get a different perspective on the rows of grape vines. The first had kind of a straight on down the row effect and the second was intended to have the rows at an angle going from left to right out of the frame. Thanks to all for taking the time to comment.

**mtbbrian** · 05-28-2004, 08:01 AM

You sure are putting that D70 to the test! Right On!
This is a good composition, sertainly one of the best images I have seen from you Old Timer.
The lines from the vines make for a good composition.

The light is fine, it creates a good mood, but I think it could have been a bit better.
Also, I think having a bit more space on the right for the shack would make it a little better too.
Keep up the good work!
Brian

StillMrFitz · 05-28-2004, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Timer

Here are a couple that I am not at all sure of. If I was better with PS I think I could improve them, but my attemps failed. Are these images worth fooling with or are they one's to be forgotten? D70 and 18-80mm ISO 400.

Hello Old Timer

I've been observing your photo from a technical viewpoint only.
It appears to be underexposed, lacks contrast and has missing colours.
It looks as if it was taken on a misty morning.
It wasn't until I imported the photograph into PhotoShop and did some shadow recovery on it that I discovered the red blossoms in the foreground.
My attached version is just to show how much information is missing in the photo as posted and is not meant as any kind of final interpation.
I used levels, curves, hue/saturation, shadow recovery and two different sharpening methods.

**Old Timer** · 05-29-2004, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillMrFitz

Hello Old Timer

I've been observing your photo from a technical viewpoint only.
It appears to be underexposed, lacks contrast and has missing colours.
It looks as if it was taken on a misty morning.
It wasn't until I imported the photograph into PhotoShop and did some shadow recovery on it that I discovered the red blossoms in the foreground.
My attached version is just to show how much information is missing in the photo as posted and is not meant as any kind of final interpation.
I used levels, curves, hue/saturation, shadow recovery and two different sharpening methods.

As some other can attest to I have been trying to learn PS for the sometime now, without a lot of success. Your PS work is a much need improvement. Thanks

StillMrFitz · 05-30-2004, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Timer

As some other can attest to I have been trying to learn PS for the sometime now, without a lot of success. Your PS work is a much need improvement. Thanks

Good Morning Old Timer

PhotoShop is not an easy program to learn.
It has no logical starting point.
You can start the learning process in a dozen different places and still end up at the same destination. Picking the start point is the difficult part.
I started by ignoring everything not directly connected to editing photographs for the purpose of making them look good on the monitor. That, by the way, was after I discovered that all monitors were not created equal. It took me several weeks to sort out monitor calibration.
I then picked only the tools that were necessary for editing photographs and learned their abilities and limitations, one at a time.
All of this was done with a great deal of help from some very good web sites, where I also discovered that there was at least 10 diffferent methods to achieve any one effect.
If I can be of any help to you in your quest to conquer the PS Dragon, just send an email through the system.

PFitz

Elysian · 06-02-2004, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StillMrFitz

It appears to be underexposed, lacks contrast and has missing colours.

StillMrFitz's, your result looks rather artificial. You've also introduced a magenta cast.

A typical example of going too far in Photoshop in my opinion, something I've seen so many times.
Let's get one point straight; if an image is shot at a certain time of day (sunset, sundown) or under certain conditions (fog, smog, clouds), then you'll have less contrast, in general darker shots and color that's are more dull.
You're trying to correct the image towards something of YOUR preference without success. Everybody can bring out the red of a rose in the shadows, yes, it will increase the contrast, the color, but do you really think that this is the way to go? Not! That the information is available in the shadows doesn't mean that it has to pop out.
Take for example the shadow/highlight filter, move all the shadows all the way to the right, can you see all the details in the shadows? Yes. Does the final result look great? Absolutely not.

A slight middle slider levels adjustment and some sharpening is good enough for this image.

Let's take the shot by Old Timer and your corrected image and get mad by pushing up the saturation all the way (example), a good way to show that you've gone way too far.

If you don't like Old Timer's shot because it's too dark or because of the colors, ask him if he can take the same shot under different conditions, but don't correct his shot towards something artificial, away from reality, because that's not showing a lot of respect for the art of photography, sorry, but that's the way I look at it.

StillMrFitz · 06-02-2004, 12:48 PM

JoeD

"Sorry, but I'm not here to teach you Photoshop, that's what we have other sites for.
I just assumed.................you know how.......................my mistake"

I do believe that the above is a full direct quote and a partial direct quote from "you" in one of your previous posts, to another PR member.

Please do not make the mistake of trying to start your Photoshop teaching career with me. With the attitude expressed by you in the above quote I would suggest that you do not have the capacity to teach anyone.

You also need to learn to read before you can teach. As I stated in my memo accompanying the photograph - my editing was not meant as any kind of "final interpetation"

You should also realize that I was not talking to "you"
If you have a critique for Old Timer then please be kind enough to address it directly to him and do not critique my critique.

Regardless off anything else we do try to help and "teach" each other.
If you are not willing to help then keeping quite is a very good policy.
You appear to be a meanspirited miserable grinch and please do me the honour of not sending me any more emails.

PFitz

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeD

StillMrFitz's, your result looks rather artificial. You've also introduced a magenta cast.

A typical example of going too far in Photoshop in my opinion, something I've seen so many times.
Let's get one point straight; if an image is shot at a certain time of day (sunset, sundown) or under certain conditions (fog, smog, clouds), then you'll have less contrast, in general darker shots and color that's are more dull.
You're trying to correct the image towards something of YOUR preference without success. Everybody can bring out the red of a rose in the shadows, yes, it will increase the contrast, the color, but do you really think that this is the way to go? Not! That the information is available in the shadows doesn't mean that it has to pop out.
Take for example the shadow/highlight filter, move all the shadows all the way to the right, can you see all the details in the shadows? Yes. Does the final result look great? Absolutely not.

A slight middle slider levels adjustment and some sharpening is good enough for this image.

Let's take the shot by Old Timer and your corrected image and get mad by pushing up the saturation all the way (example), a good way to show that you've gone way too far.

If you don't like Old Timer's shot because it's too dark or because of the colors, ask him if he can take the same shot under different conditions, but don't correct his shot towards something artificial, away from reality, because that's not showing a lot of respect for the art of photography, sorry, but that's the way I look at it.

stew · 06-02-2004, 07:10 PM

OT-

Hey I've looked at this photo many times but haven't commented - for some reason, that is how it goes many times...

I am happy that this was chosen as the featured photo. Good job! Well deserved...

I like it. It's got a beautiful, peaceful, serene quality that makes me feel relaxed, which is a wonderful feeling to get from something. A small critique is to crop it on the left to rid the small branch from the picture. Otherwise, I don't have much to say but good things!

Keep posting.. I always enjoy your photos...

Cheers, Stew

**another view** · 06-02-2004, 08:19 PM

Congrads on the anniversary, first of all. I don't know if my wife will put up with me for 32 years! Sounds like a fun evening.

The first one has some great leading lines to it, and I do like that soft just-after-sunset light. It makes some really saturated images, reminds me of Velvia. Shadows are a little dark in the foreground though - Photoshop can fix that but I completely understand being overwhelmed by it. The one thing I see in both is that if the camera was turned just a little to the right - less in the first than in the second - the compositions might open up a little more. Good work! Why not make a print of the first shot, a good way to remember the evening.

Lava Lamp · 06-02-2004, 09:08 PM

#1 is a fine, fine, photo. I love the colors and composition. If I had to nitpik one thing, I'd say the building ould be shifted slightly more to the left.

#2 serves to remind us that slight changes in perspective can make all the difference in results. While #1 is outstanding, #2 is a throw-away with none of #1's grace - at least in my opinion.

**Old Timer** · 06-04-2004, 01:14 PM

I've been gone on a little field trip to Texas for the last few days and was very suprised to come home to my image as the feature photo here on the critque forum. I appreciate everyones comments. I like a lot of things about this image but as I and others have pointed out there most certainly is room for improvement and after all that is why we post to the critque forum to get each other ideas and comments for improving our images. Thanks once again to everyone that has viewed and commented on my photos.

bjtindle · 06-07-2004, 01:21 AM

Hi Old Timer,

I like the photo with the building the best. It seems to add character to the picture. I like the misty effect also. Can't comment on PhotoShop, to new to all of this period. I like the green in the picture, along with the shapes of the grapevine posts (???) I don't know what that is called unless it is the vine itself. I think you have several things going, the building with the emblem on it, the river, the grapevines, the mist, the flowers in front and the trees in back, all make a pleasing ensemble. Nice photo.

Betty

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