Post processing do's and dont's?

[JoshD]

Hi there

I have a Rebel Xsi and I just bought PS Elements. Up until then I was using iPhoto to store and make adjustments (rather limiting). I am planning on taking a roadtrip in a couple weeks and am already anticipating making prints when I get back, hopefully anyway.

As this is pretty much all new to me, making prints, what should I NOT do to my images if I want to make prints afterwards? (i.e., save as JPEG, resizing, too many adjustments etc etc). I plan on taking the pics right from my camera and uploading them into PS Elements.

Any good tips? Also, any recommendations for sites to order prints from online? And, would getting sharp 8.5x11 size prints be unrealistic from this camera?

Thanks!

[Frog]

I'm not expert on post processing but I would suggest shooting in raw format. Yes it takes more memory but you'll always have your original if you make a msitake or want to try something different. It uses more memory but I think it is worth it.
8.5x11 is totally realistic and larger can be done.

[JoshD]

Thanks Frog. Yikes, that does use up a lot more memory! I hadn't switched to RAW mode before, and I just did and my available shots went from 1400 to 450. I guess it is worth it though, I had heard that before too...

[drg]

Josh,

Color is the thing that is easiest to mess up badly enough that the prints will not look right.

As an experiment shoot RAW plus JPEG (Large/Fine) and take the JPEG straight from the camera to your favorite printer or print it yourself. Then you know what a basic capability the camera has for you and then you can begin to start refining from the RAW files.

Processing from RAW will take some time to learn the details of what you need/want to do. Adjustments range from setting white/black points (for printing your own) to refining the White Balance at the same time, to fixing problem areas to adjusting contrast and Dynamic Range to framing, straightening, fixing keystoning or lens problems to sharpening.

So:
1. Test shots and then print.
2. Refine the photographs one change at a time.
3. Too many changes at once will confuse the end effect.
4. Develop a sequence and stick to it and do the same adjustments in the same order. Though they don't need to be done when not needed nor in the strength.
5. Post at PR for feedback both in this forum and in Photo Critique.

Large prints (8x10 or 8x12) will look just fine from the camera.

Best wishes

[JoshD]

thank you DRG, so basically if I choose RAW and Jpeg, I will have 2 images on my camera? Will it be obvious which is which when I am uploading them? Probably will I am assuming.

This certainly sounds like something I need practice on

Thanks again

just out of curiousity, can you get nice loooking 8x10 prints from a JPEG formatted shot?

[straightarm]

thank you DRG, so basically if I choose RAW and Jpeg, I will have 2 images on my camera? Will it be obvious which is which when I am uploading them? Probably will I am assuming.

This certainly sounds like something I need practice on

Thanks again

just out of curiousity, can you get nice loooking 8x10 prints from a JPEG formatted shot?

If you shoot RAW and JPEG, you will end up with 2 files eg

IMG0001.CR2 & IMG0001. JPG

The RAW file will be much bigger

The other tips are:
try and get the image right at the time of taking so that adjustments in PSE are minimised.
Use the histogram on the camera to make sure your exposures are correct
Use the Auto white balance

You will have no problems getting a decent 10 x 8 from a large JPEG and a meduim JPEG

[GB1]

Josh - The raw files allow a finer degree of post processing /editing than the JPEGs. it takes awhile to learn how (hence a good reason to visit this forum ).

I have not learned to process RAW files yet, so I may be off on some of what I write here (consider it thinking out loud). I would say that you cannot post the RAWs here for display, only JPGs and, I think, GIFs. Therefore, if you do edit the RAWs, you must as the final step export the edits in a common format like JPG. This sort of hurts, for JPGs only have 8 bit range for each color (RGB) whereas RAW typically has 12 bits, allowing for a much greater range of colors, and when you convert to JPG you appear to 'collapse' the color range to 8 bits and lose some of the very advantage you had with RAW. I'm also not sure what part of the range is lost - front, back, even distribution in between, etc (??)

As for sharp 8 x 12 images, the Rebel Xsi should be more than adequate. You will learn that you must sharpen your images more for printing than for normal display (how far to go is a good Question ..).

G

[jetrim]

Therefore, if you do edit the RAWs, you must as the final step export the edits in a common format like JPG. This sort of hurts, for JPGs only have 8 bit range for each color (RGB) whereas RAW typically has 12 bits, allowing for a much greater range of colors, and when you convert to JPG you appear to 'collapse' the color range to 8 bits and lose some of the very advantage you had with RAW.

Without trying to confuse the issue further, photos to post on the web and photos to print should be saved differently (no worries you can "save as" in several formats from the same original) JPGs are used for the web because they typically have a very much smaller file size so they load in your browser quick. They get that small file size by stripping away a bunch of information. When printing, you want the printer to have the most information possible, which requires that none of the original is stripped away - you don't worry about file size. In cases where you want to make prints, you should generally "save as" .TIF or .TIFF as it will keep all the information from the processed RAW file, without compressing it or stripping anything away. You will find that your average .TIF/.TIFF file is 8 to 10 times the size of your RAW file, but your prints will look far better.

[Anbesol]

I work a lot in both JPEG and RAW, I dont think RAW always needs to be relied upon to achieve good color, tonal graduations, white balance etc. Sometimes it helps, but I primarily stick with JPEG due to its easier processing. I also do processing through layers, which in 16-bit (raw) mode would consume huge amounts of space (my layered jpegs already reach some 150mb a piece, double that for 16-bit raw). When you want to make some major adjustments then RAW is certainly ideal, but with careful processing JPEGS can do plenty.

Some do's for processing I would say are - working in layers. Always make a duplicate layer to build upon and keep the original layer on the bottom. If you save in a PSD format they will stay as the original and you will always have that 'negative' unaltered original image (be it jpeg or raw ). Layers allow more precise and acute control over the entire process, with overlays, adjustable opacity, and selective tonal/filter adjustments, layers truly create a much more comprehensive processing. Its a lot harder, but once you get the hang of it, makes processing much more cohesive.

The way I sharpen images in layers, start by duplicating the layer, select a high pass filter, set to ~2-8px radius (look at the filter and see there is no halo effect on edges), then set the layer style to 'Overlay'. Once you do this, erase the overlay from areas you dont want softened (mainly bokeh), then zoom in on a sharp area, and adjust opacity from ~25-75% until the detail is pleasantly sharp.

Sharpening is just the beginning here with layers though - now if you use a median noise filter on the bottom layered image, it eliminates noise much more succesfully. And say you want to narrow or widen shadow/highlight tones, levels adjustment in a duplicate layered arrangement. With layering, the possibilities really are endless.

As far as 'donts' when it comes to processing, hard to say - photoshop is a lot of trial and error, those 'donts' will usually let you know by making a less pleasant looking image.

[JoshD]

Thank you all for the tips and advice. A lot of it is way over my head in regards to RAW and layering techniques etc etc, but I guess that will come in time. I will probably take jpegs and RAW photos on the trip just to play it safe and then experiment with PSE when I get back

Oh and just to be clear, whether I shoot in RAW or jpeg, I should NOT resize the pictures I want to print at all correct? Just save as .TIFF format?

Thanks

[Anbesol]

Thank you all for the tips and advice. A lot of it is way over my head in regards to RAW and layering techniques etc etc, but I guess that will come in time. I will probably take jpegs and RAW photos on the trip just to play it safe and then experiment with PSE when I get back

Oh and just to be clear, whether I shoot in RAW or jpeg, I should NOT resize the pictures I want to print at all correct? Just save as .TIFF format?

Thanks

I use PSD format, tiff is fine too, can't save layers in tiff though.

You will have to resize pictures to print, but resize from the original image to fit the correct aspect ratio. A standard image uncropped will fit 4x6 ratio, if you dont resize it, the printer will automatically crop out the center. If you crop it, then you decide where the crop lines are. It is also virtually the only way you can print properly from photoshop, which is the very best way to crop as well.

[JoshD]

I use PSD format, tiff is fine too, can't save layers in tiff though.

You will have to resize pictures to print, but resize from the original image to fit the correct aspect ratio. A standard image uncropped will fit 4x6 ratio, if you dont resize it, the printer will automatically crop out the center. If you crop it, then you decide where the crop lines are. It is also virtually the only way you can print properly from photoshop, which is the very best way to crop as well.

Ok so, crop the picture to my liking and then resize it? (I will have to figure out the ratios part) Sorry if I am dumbing this down, I just want to make sure I am clear!

Thanks

[Frog]

If you send the full size pic to be printed they won't fit on some of the standard print sizes.
8x10 will lose a little on both sides. There are some sizes in which you won't lose anything but don't remember which ones they are. You don't have to crop but it might help as after you click the crop icon you get a choice of sizes to crop to and can determine which one works best for what you want by choosing center point.

[JoshD]

Thank you Frog, I just practiced with that. I also tried to mock "order prints" from PSE, and it said the file format must be in .jpeg to order prints. Hmmm.

Any other recommendations from online places to order prints once editing and saving is done in PSE?

Thanks

[OldClicker]

I often just add black 'canvas' on the sides that are too short rather than crop to format. - TF

[Anbesol]

An uncropped image from any 35mm or APS crop camera (like yours) will default to any 2:3 aspect ratio. The only ones the same ratio (in standard print sizes) are 4x6 and 8x12, 13x19 is also pretty close. Anything in the standard portrait sizes, like 8x10 and 5x7 will be severely cropped.

Its not very difficult at all, when you select your crop tool, set the size to whatever size you want to print. If its 8x10, you can specify the exact crop lines, which are VERY different from 2:3 aspect ratio.

Printing from those auto-do-it-all printing programs is a big no no! If you resize, crop and set proper DPI and print in Photoshop, it makes a world of difference in color quality and sharpness in prints, BIG time! Setting to a CMYK colorspace also helps tones maintain accurately.

Do you have a home printer that you are printing from? Which one?