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  1. #1
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    Photobook from Aperture

    All,

    I know I'm posting in the wrong forum but I studied the list for quite a while and there is nothing dedicated to reviewing print services. Maybe we should consider adding it.
    Does anybody have any experience with ordering photobooks through Aperture? I unfortunately do but it hasn't ben very positive. I should preface by saying that I ordered through Aperture 1.5 and I've heard 2.0 books are better.
    I received my first copy of the book (which was a collection of pictures from a summer trip) maybe two months ago. The colors were fairly bad. It was as if the color saturation and the contrast was turned quite a bit down. In addition the pictures were fairly fuzzy and the boarders weren't crisp. They reprinted it for me and I just got the second copy today. It's basically the same, though the colors are marginally better.
    I have printed a number of these photos at 11 by 14 and/or 16 by 20 from Mpix and, I have to say, they look pretty darn good. The colors are great. The pictures look very rich and full.
    I guess my question is: Is it me or is it Apple? I know I had a problem on this trip shooting too wide open (a lot of 1.8 and 3.5). That caused some of the pictures to look a little fuzzy but not like this. When I look at them on my computer monitor they look pretty tack sharp. When I print at Mpix, they look similar. But, maybe these are not good indicators? I'll upload a few of the photos so that you can take a look.
    I think I am going to try to print the book (a redesigned version) at Blurb with their heavier paper. Any other suggestions for better results or any similar experiences with Apple? Should I do some sharpening in Photoshop?
    Actually, the resolution they let me upload here is so low that I won't upload anything.

    Thanks for the help,
    Derek
    ---------
    Derek Jacoby

    Rebel XTi
    EF-S 18-55mm
    EF-S 50mm/f1.8
    EF-S 10-22mm

  2. #2
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: Photobook from Aperture

    Derek,

    I've gotten books from Apple and have been over the moon with the results, so it's probably you, but I can't tell yet. Tack sharp images on a screen are nearly always too soft for print, and if you haven't done any sharpening, I'd bet on it.

    So, I need some more info from you before I can make specific suggestions:

    When was the last time you had your monitor profiled and calibrated?

    If that answer is "never", how long have you had the computer you're working on?

    What are the pixel dimensions of the images you uploaded, and what physical size are the prints?

    That should get us started.

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

  3. #3
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    Re: Photobook from Aperture

    Joe,

    It looks like the shots are 3888 x 2592 when they come out of the camera. As for my computer and monitor, I've had it for three years. The only color profiling I did was the sort of quick way with MPIX. They send you several printed photos and the digital files and you work with your system to make them match the printout. They freely admit that it's not a proper calibration but, when working with MPIX, I've found it to be a helpful and easy way to get started.

    The largest physical size is cropped to about 16" by 8.5" (which means that it is only 243 dpi). That is a shot spread over two pages. And, it uses the full 3888 the long way, the 16 inch way. Most shots are smaller than that and work out to way over 300 dpi. And, in fact, some of the large shots, with the lesser DPI, turned out the best.

    I wanted to ask a question. You said, "Tack sharp images on a screen are nearly always too soft for print..." One of the ways I tried to remedy that is, if I used a image that wasn't the absolute crispest, I'd put it in a 2 or 3 inch square, or something like that. Those images would effectively have, when cropped, something on the order of 800 dpi and they still looked bad. So, I.E. you'll see less problem in a 4 by 6 than in a 16 by 20.

    Maybe this sounds weird but my complaint always felt like, "why do these images feel like they have no depth? They feel so flat." When I order photos from MPIX they do not feel that way. But I'm looking for some sort of 3D depth from an obviously 2D medium. Maybe something's wrong with that.

    Hopefully this info will help you get started. And, thanks for the help,
    Derek
    ---------
    Derek Jacoby

    Rebel XTi
    EF-S 18-55mm
    EF-S 50mm/f1.8
    EF-S 10-22mm

  4. #4
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: Photobook from Aperture

    OK, first of all, I think you should look at this thread for a few clues:

    How big?

    So, we have two separate problems here- color management, and sharpening. (and I understand what you mean about the image looking 'flat'. We'll get to that too, but I have to lay some ground work first.)

    The first step in color management is easy: invest in a monitor calibration system. Until you do, you're only guessing at the colors the print will have. You've already seen the result of that. Calibrating your monitor will solve about 90% of your color problems. I understand what Mpix was trying to do. It's an effort that's better than nothing, but only slightly.

    So now, on to sharpening. If you've browsed the previous topic, you should know by now that the printer didn't print at 243 dpi, nor did it print at 800 dpi. It printed at about 300 dpi, and resized the images you gave it as necessary to make things work. The image that was enlarged probably wasn't enlarged enough to make much of a difference (50% increase, before cropping, by my calculations). But reducing the image size of the small print wouldn't have helped much either, because you're not actually going to see a 2.5x increase in resolution, as you thought you would.

    So, let me show you something. To do it though, I need to ask two more questions

    1) What is the width of your display? ( not the monitor, JUST the display itself. And I need the width, not the diagonal measurement)

    2) What are the display resolution options available to you? (1024x768, 1152x720, etc) Please list all available options.

    Thanks for bearing with me. Once I have these answers, we can get down to discussing my sharpening technique(s).

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

  5. #5
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    Re: Photobook from Aperture

    Joe,

    Sorry for my delay here. Here are my answers.

    1) The screen width is almost exactly 13 inches. 13.25, if that part matters.

    2) I can display in: 640x480 (stretched and non), 720x480 (stretched and non), 800x500, 800x600 (stretchd and non) 1024x640, 1024x768 (stretched and non), 1152x720, 1280x800 and 1440 x 900 (which is what it is currently at).
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    I will say, as an aside, I just took a few pictures of mine and printed them out as 8 by 10s with various degrees of sharpening. I did 8x10s because they are fairly large and the MPIX price on them is cheap. The sharpening percentage was printed on the back. Each shot had an as-in, 50%, 100%, 200%, 300%, 400%, 500% sharpening versions and 1.0 was the radius the whole way. It was done in Photoshop and the setting was lens blur. My fiance and I separately laid out all the options for each shot and picked our favorite. On one shot, the sharpening seemed to make almost no difference to the naked eye but that was the most in-focus shot of the bunch. On the other two shots, we both picked either 400% or 500% sharpening, as it was noticeable clearer with no signs of sharpening artifacts. So, looks like some sharpening for me, in a general sense, would be useful.
    But, in relation to our exact topic, even the unsharpened pictures done in an 8x10 from MPIX were head and shoulders above anything at all in my photobook from Apple.
    ---------
    Derek Jacoby

    Rebel XTi
    EF-S 18-55mm
    EF-S 50mm/f1.8
    EF-S 10-22mm

  6. #6
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: Photobook from Aperture

    OK. Switch your screen resolution to 1024x640. Assuming you saved the files before you printed them, open one of the files in Photoshop. Set Photoshop's view to 25%- no more, no less. Now compare the portion of the image you can see on the screen with the print you got back.

    Color wise, it will still be off until you calibrate your monitor. But sharpness wise, they should be very close.

    Now, open an unprocessed, unsharpened image. (you can switch back to your normal resolution if you wish, but you'll have to reset the pallette locations). Process the image as you normally would, until you get to sharpening. Then do the same thing: switch to 1024x640, and the 25% view. Go to unsharp mask: set the radius to 3 pixels, the threshold to 2, and adjust the amount until the image on the screen looks sharp. Save that result, and send it to be printed.

    I'm not going to promise it'll be perfect, but it should be very nearly what you want. Tell me what you think when you see the results. I'm anticipating a few small problems, particularly a visible haloing in areas that are either very bright or very dark. It's the impression overall that I want you to evaluate. Then I'll show you how to fix the problem areas.

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: Photobook from Aperture

    Derek, I almost forgot. To make this really work well, you need to resize your image, and you need to do it BEFORE you sharpen. Resize the image to 300ppix the image size: an 8x10 would need to be resized to 3000x2400.

    Hope I got this to you before you sent the print.

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

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