Color Profiles

[daq7]

As people mentioned to me I am having issues with color profiles. Somehow photoshop got set to my monitors profile and now on other monitors the photos look pale and wahsed out. I just want to ask a question about what is happening so I understand it.

Photoshop has a wider gamut that sRGB, is that right? So a Pshop profile would be compressed into SRGB gamut when I put it on a web site? I am guessing that my monitor has a narrower profile than srgb, so that when it goes to other sites it looks pale after converstion to SRGB?

I tried applying SRGB profile to things while they are in Pshop but they get very dark.

So I am a bit confused about how to get the best results no matter where I post.

[Anbesol]

The monitor profile is a different thing altogether, not intended to be used on image files. I am guessing that they are being changed in your Raw conversion. Photoshop does not have a gamut so to speak, it has a library of different colorspaces. Gamut width isn't quite as it sounds, it is actually bit depth indicates the number of possible shades, it is simply in how each colorspace handles the shades that differs. So, an 8 bit colorspace like AdobeRGB does have wider green and red than sRGB, that also means that the shades in sRGB are smoother and more graduated. Both of them have exactly 256 shades of red, green, and blue.

Anyway, assuming the prob is in raw conversion, at the bottom of the image theres words that indicate bit, colorspace, and dpi, it is probably just set to your samsung profile, here is an image to show you where it is.

Hope that helps.

[BlueRob]

Dont know if this helps but cameras had also a couple of options of color. For example mine is set to sRGB if you have this sort of option make sure is correctly set according to your needs. Now that I think of it I might need to use Adobe color space instead

[drg]

Do you have a default or manufacturer supplied profile for your monitor? If you reset the monitor and Adobe Photoshop to the same profile to start with for the display, then you can adjust via profiling or other variations.

For display on the web be sure to remember to 'export' the file in the correct (sRGB usually) from what you worked with. That way it will look good to you in the 'native' to your machine format and be the appropriate average for 'others'. There's going to be some differences but if it is way off it probably is merely getting Photoshop (from RAW to the regular workspace) to use the correct display format. The menu changes won't change your file!!

So experiment and keep notes of success and failures. Otherwise start with the default .ICC or .ICM for your monitor. .ICM is the extension for the color control from Microsoft drivers and .ICC are the industry wide standardized profiles.

If you have calibrated your system in anyway, be sure you know what the name of the file is that contains that information as Anebesol noted at the bottom of his screenshot. The profile might get renamed with an added extension or modification to prevent it from overwriting an existing file.

What else can we try and answer:idea:

[daq7]

By exporting the right profile, do you mean using the convert to profile tab in photoshop's edit drop down?

The issue is that whether I set the profile to my samsung monitor or to adobe rgb in photoshop it looks fine when in photoshop. If I write it out to a jpg with the samsung profile it looks fine to me on my monitors in any reader, but looks washed out on other monitors. If I write it out in adobe rgb it looks bad on my monitor AND other monitors.

So there is some aspect of photoshop itself that is making these pictures look a lot darker while they are IN photoshop. I need to get photoshop to start showing a truer representation of what sRGB will look like elsewhere. I think it is some sort of a calibration issue, but I don't know what to do about it.

[Medley]

daq, it sounds to me like you need to profile your monitor. Until you do, color management will simply be trial and error. Specifically, it sounds like your monitor's gamma is out of whack. Gamma controls the brightness level of the monitor (a VERY oversimplified statement, but basically on target).

Your best bet is to invest in a third party monitor profiling system, such as Colorvision's Spyder system, or Gretag Macbeth's Eye One. These systems provide both hardware and software to calibrate your monitor's display. The software displays colors at known values, while a device called a colorimeter reads the color actually being emitted by your monitor. In the end, the monitor is adjusted to display things correctly.

It's inportant to note that once you have profiled your monitor, you shouldn't use the monitors controls for brightness, contrast, or color. Doing so will change things, and throw the monitor out of whack again. Most apps will ask you to either set these where you want BEFORE profiling, or simply ask you to set them to the factory settings.

If you can't (or don't want to) throw money at the problem, there is a second-best solution. As far as I know, Photoshop still ships with, and installs, an application called Adobe Gamma. This is a software-only type of monitor calibration. It usually doesn't do as good a job, but hey, it's free. I've had people tell me that they got a half-decent monitor profile from it, but only after running it three or four times in succession. That makes it suspect in my eyes.

Hope this helps you some. Trust me, I'm well aware of the fact that color managment can be frustrating!

- Joe U.

[OldClicker]

The Profile (.icc file) and Color Space (such as sRGB) are not the same thing.

The Profile is a file that 'profile aware' programs use to compensate for incorrect colors from the monitor. A calibrator (like the Spyder) will send each color to the monitor, read the color and then establish an offset to get that color correct. Non-calibrator profiles are (educated) guesses that try to compensate. Be sure you monitor is only using one of these. You cannot tell Photoshop which to use.

The color space is all the colors that are included. For instance, one may have a wider range of greens. Most (all???) web browsers use sRGB, so that is what you want your jpg file to be in. When you open a file in Photoshop, use Edit>Convert to Profile and pick sRGB in Destination Space.

When you understand it better (better than I do), you may want to shoot, work and save in a 'better' space and just convert to sRGB when you make the jpg.

TF

[daq7]

Yeah, given what I am seeing, the explanation that the monitor gammas are out of whack sounds right to me. In fact it may be they are set that way, becuase I have a second samsung monitor on my desk, and both of them behave the same way. I will look into the monitor profile.

[Medley]

The Profile (.icc file) and Color Space (such as sRGB) are not the same thing.
TF

Actually they are- technically speaking. AdobeRGB and sRGB (as well as all the other colorspace profiles) are simply icc profiles. I'm not sure that they're meant to be stored in the same folder. On my Mac, my monitor profiles are in the Library> ColorSync> Profiles folder, and the colorspace icc profiles are in the Library> Application Support> Adobe> Color> Profiles> Recommended folder. Thing is, there's an alias of the Recommended folder in my ColorSync folder. I suspect that Adobe created this alias when I installed the suite, but I may well have done it trying to install any one of several icc printer profiles. I've done sillier things.

The bottom line is that weather I'm switching monitor profiles, changing my settings in the Edit> Color Settings dialog box, or simply doing the Convert to Profile command, I have the option of any one of the monitor or color space profiles. So it IS possible to set your monitor to the sRGB profile, or conversely set Photoshop to open an image in your monitor's profile by default.

In fact, I initially suspected that that was what daq had done- set Photoshop's default profile to that of his monitor. But if that had been the case, using Convert to Profile SHOULD have cleared up his problem.

- Joe U.