An issue with Lightroom?

[gahspidy]

I'm using the latest version of lightroom 1.3.1 I seem to be having an issue with the exporting of files. After adjusting my RAW files, I may decide to export one for further work in CS2. Normally, I select Edit is CS2 with Lightroom adjustments. Afterwards, the TIFF file will be in the lightroom catalog with a 3 digit file extension added on. It will lay side by side with it's RAW original. Fine
I have attempted to export some RAW files by choosing "Export", selecting the destination folder to be the same as the folder it's RAW original is in as well as the quality (16 bit,no compression, etc) The file exports as it should and is in the correct folder, but is not visible in my Lightroom library. I have tried synchronizing the folder and still does not show. I try selecting "import" and browsing to the file in my directory, selecting the file and LightRoom says it already exists in it's directory. It asks me if I would like it to show it to me in the folder. I click yes and it shows me the Original DNG file, not the Tiff file that I had selected for import. So, for the time being, I have continued to export by selecting Edit in CS2 and having the tiff file with the added 3 digit extension to the file name. Anyone have similiar issues or know what is going on, I assume I must be doing something wrong and not realizing it.

[Xia_Ke]

Just to clarify... You are trying to export a TIFF copy of your RAW file and then import that TIFF back into Lightroom?

[gahspidy]

Just to clarify... You are trying to export a TIFF copy of your RAW file and then import that TIFF back into Lightroom?

Yes, I'm exporting as a Tiff File. The only reason why I try importing back into lightroom is because it does not show up in my lightroom library. Only my DNG file is there. I want the DNG file and the newly exported Tiff file to be there as well.

[Xia_Ke]

Gary, the only thing I can think of that would be causing the problem, and this is just a guess, would be the picture's metadata. Lightroom works on metadata and even though the files are technically different, the metadata is the same so Lightroom may not be treating it as a separate file. Have you tried just using the "virtual copy" function instead? Using this function, you could have unlimited version of a shot without having to save full physical copies on your hard drive.

[gahspidy]

Thanks Aaron, it might be something along that line. I only convert to tiff if I need to do further editing in CS2, but I guess the right way to go about that is to select "Open a copy with Lightroom adjustments" is the intended way to go about it. That always works well. A virtual copy is just another DNG in it's current form. Actually, I convert to print as well. I'm more comfortable printing from CS2 than Lightroom, although I will start trying it more often

[drg]

Gary,

Are you creating a copy originally of the 'export' file? Not a virtual copy but one with the default -edit-xxx extension? Once you do this when you export for editing then you can 'Edit Original' and get all the layering to move to and fro from CSx and not touch the original.

If you want to use the .PSD format, the Maximize PSD compatibility option has to be turned on in the File Handling Preferences for Lightroom to properly recognize layer info in the PSD format.

I am also wondering if there may be an issue with CS2 that isn't 'seeing' the file or if you are really exporting something from a stack which appears to send a file to Photoshop but not really write anything other than an additional set of data to editing information Lightroom looks at in the metadata.

Are you saving AND then closing the image in Photoshop? Or are you exiting PS after saving the file(tiff?)? CS3 has a note somewhere (I clipped out to my 'personal' notes) about slight differences in file handling if various different method are used to save, edit, transfer work, though my understanding was that this only applied to PSD work.

The original Adobe guide from Martin Evening for Lightroom suggests this approximate workflow:

1. select Edit in External Editor (which creates the pixel image copy) and select the Stack with original which groups the edited version with the master DNG.
2. Photoshop should then open directly with the exported image. When finished editing in PS, Choose File->Save and then close the image.
3. Then in Lightroom the changes should automatically appear in the image and be highlighted in the Filmstrip as a Edit Copy Photo. This file appears in the same folder as the original. Lightroom will display the now edited, newly copied version of the original in the work area.

I'm wondering if by creating a separate image (if I understand your explanation of your workflow) that it is messing with the indexes in the metadata that LR reads as LR wants to create the Copy file on its own.

Let me know what happens.

[gahspidy]

Carleton,

There is no problem with the method layed out by Martin Evening. Normally, I select "Edit in CS2", and then "Edit a copy with LightRoom adjustments" After saving the file it will be (stacked) laying side by side with the master DNG file. This is what I had been doing usually.
My concern was if lets say I just wanted to convert a few files to Tiff format after adjusting them as desired in lightroom. Using just the "Export" option I would export them as Tiff. They would be in the designated destination folder, but not visible in the lightroom library. Wanting everything to be visible in my lightroom library, I tried importing back the converted tiff file but it would not.
I think the issue is with my expectation in and with lightroom. I think after this discussion the problem is that I'm thinking of "Export" as a sort of "Save As" function, which it is not. "Export" means just that.

Thanks much for your time to layout some troubleshooting points. After discussing this, it is apparent to me that I had been trying to do something which lightroom was not designed to do.

btw, do you print through lightroom?

[drg]

Carleton,

There is no problem with the method layed out by Martin Evening. Normally, I select "Edit in CS2", and then "Edit a copy with LightRoom adjustments" After saving the file it will be (stacked) laying side by side with the master DNG file. This is what I had been doing usually.
My concern was if lets say I just wanted to convert a few files to Tiff format after adjusting them as desired in lightroom. Using just the "Export" option I would export them as Tiff. They would be in the designated destination folder, but not visible in the lightroom library. Wanting everything to be visible in my lightroom library, I tried importing back the converted tiff file but it would not.
I think the issue is with my expectation in and with lightroom. I think after this discussion the problem is that I'm thinking of "Export" as a sort of "Save As" function, which it is not. "Export" means just that.

Thanks much for your time to layout some troubleshooting points. After discussing this, it is apparent to me that I had been trying to do something which lightroom was not designed to do.

btw, do you print through lightroom?

That's a real interesting 'quirk', perhaps bug as when I tried this I can EXPORT a JPEG file into the same directory, and then import it alongside a RAW(DNG) file, but not TIFF(8 or 16bit)!

I can however, export the TIFF file, then REMOVE from LR (not DELETE!!) the DNG or RAW (I tried several variations) file, and then reimport both files and they show up just fine.Side by Side. Indexed and with appropriate and differing adjustments.

In looking back over the development discussions that were posted during beta and feedback there were some comments about what to call the various differing exports types and a lot of discussion about the interface to Adobe Photoshop and other Adobe software.

What you want to do is exactly what the Edit-in-CSx dialog implements. The only option that really makes a difference is using the Stacks checkbox mentioned before. It just does it in one step along with dropping the image into a Photoshop session. Otherwise there's no reason to save a pixel mapped image in the workflow. Virtual copies can be set up to export a TIFF when needed and if there's a global change to all the variations, be it a visual such as a resize or crop, or a non visual such as a IPTC comment field in the metadata, they all are the same. A TIFF would have to be re-written even if it was Synced.

Printing from Lightroom is another lengthy topic! Yes, I do print from Lightroom, but usually after some additional work in PS or a few 'framing and proofing' tools. Half or more of my work that I print I soft proof and need PS to render the paper/ink profiles correctly first. I have found that most of the ICM profiles that are 'recent' work quite well with LR directly when letting the printer do most of the work. There seem to still be some option issues that change but I always check everything before a print session anyway.

We should start a post on that topic!

[gahspidy]

That's a real interesting 'quirk', perhaps bug as when I tried this I can EXPORT a JPEG file into the same directory, and then import it alongside a RAW(DNG) file, but not TIFF(8 or 16bit)!

I had not tried it with any other formats but it seems to me then that if it can work with a jpeg it should be able to work with TIFF (16 or 8 bit) as well. It would be good if it did, and so I can start to believe that this is a bit of a bug with the program and maybe sending off a email to tech support may get some answers.

Yes, printing through lightroom would be a lengthy discussion and would be a good topic to start up. I'm all for it. I had tried printing a few small format images with it and found it to work fine, but I was not ready for my bigger (12X18) print jobs on expensive fine art papers. I had been weary of the sharpening tool (low, med, and high), as well as the resampling used if I were to open the cell up to stretch the image into the 12x18 physical dimensions. I would see the image fill the page, but, what method is used to do this. Bicubic, I would imagine.I'm accustomed to having more control over these things. Color management options are all there for me. I think I will try it more often. It would be nice to work from within the one program as much as I can
btw, the sharpening is in addition to whatever is applied already in the Development module.

[SmartWombat]

I always edit by choosing Edit with Lightroom Adjustments.
That creates a PSD file which is then passed to PS CS2.
The PSD file is automatically placed into the catalog, and is stacked with the original.

[gahspidy]

I always edit by choosing Edit with Lightroom Adjustments.
That creates a PSD file which is then passed to PS CS2.
The PSD file is automatically placed into the catalog, and is stacked with the original.

Yes, that method always works, but there may be a bit of a quirk with exported Tiff files.

[SmartWombat]

Yeah, I never got beyond the PSD route.
I suppose I would use TIFF when editing in something other than PS.
But with the tight integration between LR and PS providing the PSD file automatically, I went with it.

The only time I use TIFF is for export to the agency, who require Adobe colour space and TIFF for highest resolution book/magazine - or JPEG for editorial.