Epson 2200 - Installed and printing... advice please

[Sean Dempsey]

Okay, got the bad mother up and printing. I printed out a few very small tests, then did a 13x19 on the premium glossy. I am impressed. But I have questions.

Okay, I read all over the internet about the color profiles and conflicts and images not looking right and such. Well, I had already had photoshop set to use the color profile that's embedded in the canon RAWs, so that was already set. And I assume that CS uses that color profile whenever I am working with an image from my DRebel (if not, how can I check and set it?).

So I printed out a test image at 13x19... and it looks fine to me. So now I have to determine if I am easy to please, OR the settings are set to work right. I see no obvious place where it says what color profiles the printer is using. Also, will these fabled profiles be in CS, or in the printer dialogue? Or am I too casual to care since it seems to look fine? =D

Any help would be appreciated, any tips for large format printing or whatever, I'd like them all, thanks!!

[Asylum Steve]

...the way the final print looks to you. So, if you're satisfied with what you've produced so far, you must be doing something right.

Still, to get consistent, predictable results that closely match what you see on your computer monitor, some knowledge of color profiling and the correct way to work with color spaces in ps would be extremely helpful.

The subject is a bit too big to go into complete detail in a single post, but I can clear some things up for you...

First, you should try to calibrate your monitor and assign it a color space. If you cannot afford (or don't want to mess with) third party hardware/software, at least go through the Adobe Gamma Utility (My Computer>Control Panel>Adobe Gamma). Once completed, this utility at least gives you a decent starting point to accurately view your images on screen. BTW, make sure your monitor has been on at least 1/2 hour before you do this, as the color will shift some as it warms up.

The first color profile assigned to your image starts in your camera. If you intend to print your photos, your image files should have a color space of Adobe RGB. It has the widest color gamut and sends the most color information to the printer. I don't know about the Rebel, but the Canon 10D can be set for Adobe RGB color.

If you have an image open in ps, and want to check to see what the assigned color space is, click on Image>Mode>Convert to Profile. The first information is the SOURCE SPACE, or the current color profile. Here you can change the image to another profile, or click cancel to leave it the way it is.

When you're ready to print, click File>Print with Preview. Make sure the "show more options" box is checked. The first pulldown should be set to Color Management, and it will confirm your source space (make sure document is checked). The Print Space profile should be the paper you're using. Intent should be Rel Colormetric, and Black Point should be checked.

Click Page Setup, choose the right paper size and orientation, click OK. Click Print. Make sure the 2200 is selected, then click Properties. Choose Quality, Paper Type and Size. Click on Advanced. On the Main Tab, choose your Resolution.

Now comes a very important step! Go to Color Management (on right side). Click ICM. This opens up the ICC profile area...

Click on NO COLOR ADJUSTMENT. This prevents the Epson Printer drivers from messing with the color space you've already established in your camera and photoshop. You NEVER want to DOUBLE color manage. It will only lead to changes from what you see on your monitor.

Click OK. Click OK again. Your image should print.

Now I realize, if you've already printed with the 2200, you know most of the steps I just described. I just didn't want to leave anything out or get you confused getting to the ICM part.

Hopefully what I said made sense and helps. If not, let me know...

Okay, got the bad mother up and printing. I printed out a few very small tests, then did a 13x19 on the premium glossy. I am impressed. But I have questions.

Okay, I read all over the internet about the color profiles and conflicts and images not looking right and such. Well, I had already had photoshop set to use the color profile that's embedded in the canon RAWs, so that was already set. And I assume that CS uses that color profile whenever I am working with an image from my DRebel (if not, how can I check and set it?).

So I printed out a test image at 13x19... and it looks fine to me. So now I have to determine if I am easy to please, OR the settings are set to work right. I see no obvious place where it says what color profiles the printer is using. Also, will these fabled profiles be in CS, or in the printer dialogue? Or am I too casual to care since it seems to look fine? =D

Any help would be appreciated, any tips for large format printing or whatever, I'd like them all, thanks!!

[Sean Dempsey]

I actually didn't know most of that, so that was a huge help. I am gonna save your post so I can review it and make sure I get all that memorized. I'll have to print another test now and see what all that did, I am glad I know where all those options and settings are now. Hopefully this all makes a nice improvment.

[Sean Dempsey]

I tried this, it still looks great, so it probably worked great.

One thing I notice is that my printouts are very accurate, but not as vivid and saturated as my monitor. It could be just that my monitor is like staring at a light bulb and the printout is a dead piece of paper (which would make sense), so maybe that's normal. It looks GREAT though. I am totally baffled that a regular person like me can now produce huge photos that look great with just a Rebel and a printer...

a few questions about Adobe RBG now... my camera manual says the photos will look subdued and require processing. Does that mean just tweaking in the raw editor and CS? Also, a footnote in my camera manual says about the Adobe RGB setting "The ICC profile is not appended. To convert the profile, you must set Adobe RGB". no idea what that means.

thanks again!

[racingpinarello]

I tried this, it still looks great, so it probably worked great.

One thing I notice is that my printouts are very accurate, but not as vivid and saturated as my monitor. It could be just that my monitor is like staring at a light bulb and the printout is a dead piece of paper (which would make sense), so maybe that's normal. It looks GREAT though. I am totally baffled that a regular person like me can now produce huge photos that look great with just a Rebel and a printer...

a few questions about Adobe RBG now... my camera manual says the photos will look subdued and require processing. Does that mean just tweaking in the raw editor and CS? Also, a footnote in my camera manual says about the Adobe RGB setting "The ICC profile is not appended. To convert the profile, you must set Adobe RGB". no idea what that means.

thanks again!

I think you are doing everything fine. I know that my printer (lightjet 5000 from Calypso) cannot handle the color gamut of my monitor to the printer. This is why I use the Soft Proof tool in Photoshop with my final print profile. It will show the color gamut of the print profile.

My lab told me about this when I was uable to get an accurate print from my calibrated monitor. Once I got this, I now know exactly how my prints will turn out.

Overall, I think you are making great use of Steve's advice.
Loren

[Sean Dempsey]

Steve's advice was really great and it's still helping alot, but here's a new problem

Premium Photo Paper (PK cartridge) - Gorgeous, blow my mind.

Premium Luster Paper (PK cartridge) - Same, stunning and amazing.

Enhanced Matte Paper (MK cartridge) - Hideous. Not even usable. Something HAS to be wrong.

As a note, I printed the exact same photo twice, once with PK and Premium Luster, then with MK and Enhanced Matte, both epson papers.

I got my document in PS. The color space is set to Adobe RGB (As is my Camera). I go to "Print with Preview", select "Document" as the source space, and as the print space its "Enhanced Matte_MK" as the paper, intent is "Relative Colorimetric".

I then go to the print properties box. Paper gets selected as Enhanced Mtte, Photo 1440dpi, High Speed, Edge Smoothing. Then on the Color Management I choose "ICM" and "No color adjustment".

I then print it, and it's hideous. The colors are all flattened out, gradients look posterized, colors are off. The black is WAY to light, it's like a weird charcoal gray. Shadows are way off and too flat, the contrast is much less than the other sheet.

I am looking at these side by side, and there is a notable difference, it's not just stylistic between matte and luster, it looks like there is defininitley something wrong. I've seen my friends matte printouts and they are great, this one looks really really bad...

Am I missing something here? I have the right inks in, the right papers, the right color profiles... why would luster/gloss be 100% perfect, and then switch to MK and Matte paper and suddenly go to total crap?

Advice and ideas are greatly greatly appreciated.

[Sean Dempsey]

I made those changes, but still get the same results.

I am thinking it might be the cartridge, because the glossy PK looks great. There is literally no black on the matte printouts. The closest it gets is a muted brown/black color.

Maybe I'll try doing a matte paper with a PK cartridge. I don't know, maybe I should go to Staples and get a MK cartridge and try it out....

[Sean Dempsey]

Hmmm

if I open the portrait, convert it to CMYK, then in my channels box hide the black channel, that is similar to what it looks like. There is SOME black, but the effect is the same.

Maybe the cartridge is just bad? How would I find that out?

[Steve Lutz]

I just bought a Canon i9100 and have been printing some samples taken with my 10D or RebelD. If you want your big prints to look their best, my advice is:

1) Use the best lens you can

2) Use a tripod

3) Shoot in RAW mode

4) Focus carefully and stop the lens down to at least f/8.

The bigger the print, the more you need a sharp lens, solid camera support and the biggest file you can get. The best shots I have printed so far were taken in RAW mode, with a 50mm 1.4 or 135 f/2.0L. Handheld shots, with the Rebel kit lens, are not too sharp at 13x19.

The larger the print, the more unforgiving the image will be of camera shake errors or slight focus issues.

[Sean Dempsey]

Also, how do I tell which side of the Epson Enhanced Matte is the printing side? Both sides look the exact same to me...


It's gotta be a bad cartridge... I just wish I had a way of finding out besides wasting more ink and paper, and buying a replacement MK. I have already used about half of all my inks, and I've only printed 2 "real" things, hah.

oh well, might just have to stick to luster and glossy if I can't get this matte thing worked out.

[Sebastian]

Also, how do I tell which side of the Epson Enhanced Matte is the printing side? Both sides look the exact same to me...


It's gotta be a bad cartridge... I just wish I had a way of finding out besides wasting more ink and paper, and buying a replacement MK. I have already used about half of all my inks, and I've only printed 2 "real" things, hah.

oh well, might just have to stick to luster and glossy if I can't get this matte thing worked out.

Sounds to me like a bad cartridge. Get a new one, if the problem is solved call Epson and ask them if they can replace it. It is very new, is it not?

[Sean Dempsey]

Yes, I only got the printer on the 6th, and the cartridge on the 7th.

[Sean Dempsey]

Huh, well I'll be. I came home to run more tests, and I took out the MK, shook it up good, then put it back, and now it seems to be working just fine. I had *thought* I shook it up before I put it in... but apparantly all it needed was a good ass-whoopin.

Matte prints now look really good, black is rich and deep.