What I would like a critique to be...

[natatbeach]

I hope this is appropriate since it concerns the quality of the critiques and I hope I'm not imposing on anyone by being specific as to how others can help me improve my work...

I plan to continue posting here as long as this site is up and running (probably forever ) or till I get sick of photography (when Hades freezes over probably) Anyway my point is

THESE are the criteria I would love to see in a critique----

1. what works--- based on technical criteria (composition, color, contrast, DOF, lighting,etc)
2. what doesn't work --- based on the same criteria as above....
3. what you like---this would be a chance to express what your personal tastes are
4. what you don't like ---- see above
5. HOW you would improve the image and what you might have done differently
6. what feeling if any it conveys...

there are a lot of you out there--- I'm sure you know who you are, that have always met this type of criteria because you are the type of people who want to help others perfect this craft. People who shgare you likes dislikes and your technical and personal experience at makes this forum so worthwhile to post and learn from...Thanks to those people....

there are still others out there that come on here from time to time and offer sometimes brutally honest critiques--- which is great because it's good to see both sides of the coin as they say....but pointing out what's wrong with an image without really pointing out a solution is just as useless to me and my learning process--- as not seeing any reply or interest in a post. It provides nothing to learn from.

I know we all have hectic lives and busy schedules but please do me a favor (if I may ask that of you) and help me to learn by being constructive....which by definition means Serving to improve or advance

If I may also ask that although from time to time, people and tempers and feathers can be ruffled based on opinions and disagreements---Please just take it to another forum or start your own thread... I come on here in the spare time I have from raising my children and having a family and trying to get this beast called photography right....I don't have time to weed thru petty and useless arguments between people that should have better things to do with their time...when al I'm trying to do is get some feedback on an image I've posted.

I in turn will try to do the same for you...Thank You ;)

Thank you...sorry for the length of my speech---I'll get off the soapbox now...sorry if this was inappropriate Brian...just my two cents to share....

[adina]

I think this comes up every couple months, and someone, usually the person who was looking for the critique, posts something similar to this.

I read somewhere a general critiquing guideline. Was that here? Can something like this be sticky'd to the top as a reminder type thing?

adina

[natatbeach]

when others make it their personal arena --- and when it starts to feel like the quality of critiquing is declining--- I think Brian had posted something like it...

Hey Brian, is there a way to have PJ set up a "form" of sorts that has to be filled out---like a basic criteria to be met for posting rplies to posts???

Just a thought...

[Sebastian]

Natalie,

I'm sorry for causing a problem in your post...

Take care.

[natatbeach]

Anyone was at fault--- nothing wrong with others expressing opinions and being passionate about it.....just setting my boundaries... and what I'd like to see-- ya know?...REALLY no offense taken. I like your responses and I LOVE the way you express yourself... i used to be taken aback (yes I admit it) by how in your face and brutally honest you can be but it's exactly that that makes me look forward to meeting you someday! Take Care

[natatbeach]

I'll have to read it more in depth so I become a better critiquer (is that a word?);)

Good one Penny Thanks...

[bobbythebandit]

there are still others out there that come on here from time to time and offer sometimes brutally honest critiques--- which is great because it's good to see both sides of the coin as they say....but pointing out what's wrong with an image without really pointing out a solution is just as useless to me and my learning process--- as not seeing any reply or interest in a post. It provides nothing to learn from.

I Hi Nataie, read your article and must say i agree with most of what you say. I too have been annoyed when i post and get 70 viewers and 2 replies.Even a bad pic can be helped by useful critique.But to get no comment at all ! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I too am pressed for time(golf, work and family) and i think if you have looked why not comment !!!!
Couple of things you left out in your post, we must never let photography become a chore, have fun, enjoy what you are doing.This will always show in good posts.I have only been able to get out once this year on a shoot(daughter ill) but hopefully will be back in action soon.
Bobby

[natatbeach]

of looking and not saying anything...sometimes I just don't know what to say to help and so often times I don't say anything because my "critique" would be useless with no solution...I'll try to see what I can say that's helpful...I'm sorry to hear about your daughter...

[mtbbrian]

Nat,
Thanks for posting this! This has been a concern of mine for sometime.
Your points are all very valid, thanks for taking the time to voice your concerns and to be so blunt with them. I commend you for that!
I for one have been lacking on commenting and coming here lately, but will make a renewed effort.
This is a great community, I am thankful for it, even if it is only a "virtual" one.
Respecfully,
Brian

[PuckJunkey]

In general, I agree that to make a criticism without any explantion or ideas for improvement won't help any of us to become better photographers.

I will say though, that there are times when a person may go to look at something, and just feel that they're not sure how to comment / what would be a useful comment. And that can stem from a variety of factors, including not being familiar with a certain style of photography, and thus feeling that it would be a little disingenuous to offer a critique when you've never shot said style before. It hasn't happened to me all that often but I can see how that thing in general might happen a lot.

Everyone is just kind of exploring everyone else's stuff and sometimes you find things that you're not sure how to relate to or how you could improve the shot. That might be the source of some of the "70 Views, 2 comments" syndrome.

Finally I will say that if any of you ever feel like I have made a criticism (or even a compliment) without really backing it up or giving a good explanation, please feel free to PM me and let me know you felt a little let down or whatever. I certainly won't take offense as I want my posts to be as useful as possible. That's what's going to make this forum great for everyone is if we all really strive to teach one another something, rather than just making "thin" comments.

That's not to say "short and sweet" isn't appropriate sometimes, because there are definitely shots where fewer words in the commentary might be more effective than a monstrosity of a post (like this one for instance!).

[gahspidy]

Just some of my thoughts here . . .In all fairness when there are 70 views and 2 comments, that may be a bit misleading. Is it not true that "outsiders" who just happen on the site and look at a few pics will count as a view. But they cannot comment without being a member.Sometimes a pics title may draw curiosity and and higher number of "views".
I know this forum is called "Photo Critique", but I can't help but to see it as a "Photo Feedback" sort of thing. I think critique is good, when done constructively with helpful pointers or experience with a particuliar style of photography. But I think all feedback is good as long as it is honest and respectful.
As OldTimer pointed out in one of his threads that it is sometimes hard for one to be objective about ones own work. I find that to be very true. There are times when I post a shot that I feel strongly about, and then may find that it obviously does not have the same impact on anyone else. And the opposite has been the case as well. I may post something that I feel I was not very excited about but throw it out there to see what sort of advice I could get, and then find it is liked by most of the replies. This sort of thing I find has helped me tremendously as it has led me to get a better understanding of what works and does not when trying to capture a scene or image.
Sometimes, I think critique gets a little over the top. Sometimes a pole does not have to be straight with a frame, sometimes a horizon does not have to be level, sometimes a photo may lead your eye into the shot from right to left as opposed to left to right, at times it may be underexposed or a bit overexposeed. . .etc. I think if a shot works and looks great and is a visual pleasure, than all those things go out the window . Of course if a picture is suffering from any of the above or anything else, than pointng that out is good.
But I think all in all, feedback is what is important here. I think it is ok for one to give a critque or opinion without neccessarily offering an alternative. There are thousands if not an infinite number of different ways to take any one scene or shot , so to offer an alternative is not always appropriate ,I feel. If a shot is suffering from a technical mistake, than offering insight on getting around the mistake or doing it diiferently would be helpful. But sometimes there may not be an easy solution and one may choose not to offer an alternative because they may not know how to do it better, that is ok for me. Just pointing out what works or what is hurting a picture is what I find to be most valuable.
So, all in all, I think whether it is a critque with or without any alternatives, or whether it is just a compliment telling that the image is a good one and that they would not do anything different, or whether it is a reply stating that the shot just does not seem right, or the subject is not strong enough. Whatever it may be. To have people here with a good eye for photography give me any sort of feedback, that is what I find to hold most value. Honest and respectful, comments and opinions, feedback.

[bjtindle]

I was reading some of the posts about how to critique, or not too. I know I am knew but I liked Nat's post and points very well. I had posted a couple of my pictures on another site, but while someone would make a comment I never knew why they liked the picture, or not. Very generic comments don't seem very helpful to me as a newbie to this hobby. I also live in a rural area and there aren't many people for me to show my photos too and get some type of response. I posted some photos for critiques yesterday and I absolutely loved how the posters said why they liked or didn't like something or how I could improve upon a picture. I found it to be very helpful, dumb things that I would never have thought of, (I am hoping the it becomes second nature to think of all these things without thinking about them?) such as some boots that were in a picture. I took the picture looking up at a couple of kids on a haystack, their boots are prominent in the picture, rather than the kids. I hadn't thought of that at all. I just liked the picture. Anyway....my two cents. I just had to say it and to also say it is nice to have some input. Thanks!

Betty