Urban Dwellings 5. . .lower east side

[gahspidy]

This scene looked like it had more potential than i believe i captured here.As with all from this series, i selectively colored and toned this. I have not added this to my works , and wonder what your thoughts on it are.
Thanks

[mpreslar]

Gary,

I agree that this has tremendous potential, but it doesn't seem to be captured here. I love the contrast between the clinging vines and graffiti. Perhaps if you had a full color presentation of this (making the assumtion that the graffiti is not monochromatic) it would be more powerful? I would also like to see more of the building in the frame. There is a feeling of incompleteness as it is. And the dark spot on the sidewalk could be cloned out. It draws the eye away from the building.

[Overbeyond]

Composition as ever is very strong Gary. I'm attracted immediately to the colouring on this one. You have left a nice subtle green on the ivy. So much graffiti here to look at and the stuff on the door is incredible and almost matches the ivy in texture and almost creates a balance with it. On closer inspection there is a lot going on in the window; a display of bottles and plates which I would like to see more clearly. Bet the window looks a lot better on the larger size. Some might say the concrete block is a nuisance but It' there and I sort of like it there. The colouring of the building I need to get used to and I have not yet.
It's hard to believe that this is an urban dwelling and full marks for sussing it out. It's poor occupants I would imagine don't get an easy time. Is it a domestic dwelling?
Tom

[jar_e]

Gary,

Works great for me. The contrast between the light colored, rough textured stone and the smooth, dark foliage works wonders for me. I love the feeling I get here with the mix of the window, the cinder block, and the graffiti. The one thing that does bother me however is the lightbulb (?) in the window near the right hand corner of the window. I originally thought it was a smudge on first view, but other than that, definitely a keeper for the series!

Well done Gary.

[readingr]

Gary,

Looked long and hard at this and the only thing that I can critique is the reflection of the car. I'd prefer it without the car. Other wise it works for me.

I even like the breeze block on the step which adds to the distress of the people who work here, I assume its a shop from the items in the window.

Nicely captured

Roger

[Chunk]

When you get past the obvious dichotomy between the beauty of the vines and the ugliness of the graffiti you find the natural curves of the foliage echoed in the writing which also complements the swirls and rhythm in the ironwork. Makes me wonder whether the elaborate style of writing in so much graffiti is an unconscious desire to see something besides straight lines in so much of the urban setting.

I like the subtle handling of the color in the shot as well.

[gahspidy]

Thanks for your responses . . .
Marty. . . I'm glad to get your honest, constructive critique. Actually, the original does not offer anything better with colors, and the grafitti is monochromatic. Nonetheless, if I am going to include this in my series it must fit the post processing that I am doing for all the works in this.I appreciate your points about the spot on the floor and the incompleteness of the building. There is not much left to this building on either side, and i felt if i moved out any more than i would lose whatever detail and interest there is in the door and window, which i thought was one of the key aspects of this scene, and of course the vines. I am going to base my decision on whether to include this on the forums feedback, and how I feel it comes about in a print.
Thanks

Tom . . . thanks for your time. It does show much more of the details in a larger look, and I imagine in a print it will really be evident. I thought the same thing about the door, and I wonder if it was done through the gate or by the persons who actually use this place. I also thought it balanced the vines well, as I did the spot on the floor. Marty already mentioned his take on the spot on the floor and I wonder if anyone has any feeling on it. I was reluctant at first to include it, but did so thinking it balanced with the vine. upon further viewing i think it may be stronger without it. btw, Tom. .in this part of town there are alot of people that are called Squatters. They are usually young and find old buildings to shack up in. There was one,I believe, sitting in the yard behind this place, so I know the dwelling is being used but i think they come and go through the back yard and enter the building through the back as well.

Jared . . .thanks for your thumbs up on this. I note the points you make on the various elements in the scene. I know the "lightbulb" your reffering to and it is actually a plate slid into the back of the window. I can see it well in the larger file. Happy to know you feel it is a good addition

Roger . . .I had not considered the reflection of the car in the window, but now that you point it out it might have been better without it. Would have brought more attention to the ironwork on the bars, i think. I too think this might have been a shop, but it is now occupied by Squatters and I think someof what is in the windows might belong, or be their doing. Thanks for your time, Roger.

Chunk. . .Your one of the reasons why I keep a pocket dictionary next to my computer I like your analysis and breakdown of the relations between the various elements in the scene. What is your feeling on the spot of stain on the sidewalk. Now that Marty brings it up, I am second guessing my decision to include it. In removing it, I would want to crop it out rather than clone and that would tighten the shot further. I get the feeling that by tightening the crop and bringing out the window, door, and vines more it will only strengthen the image. I'm glad the tones are working for you. Thanks

[PlantedTao]

This one feels a bit more crammed into the frame then some of your others. I think a little more room to let the scene unfold is in order?
The tones and over subject matter are great for your series, but I feel this one is not the strongest out of what I've looked at. The stain is a distracting element and should be cropped out or that area should be dodged. I would prefer the crop, but leave some sidewalk.

Is there any reason why the landscape format would not work on this? I think this would give it more room and draw you into the scene...of course I don't know what is on either side and how much room you have.

All in all a good shot, but just feels too tight to me. I really like this series and can't wait to see more.
Cheers.

[Chunk]

Chunk. . .Your one of the reasons why I keep a pocket dictionary next to my computer I like your analysis and breakdown of the relations between the various elements in the scene. What is your feeling on the spot of stain on the sidewalk. Now that Marty brings it up, I am second guessing my decision to include it. In removing it, I would want to crop it out rather than clone and that would tighten the shot further. I get the feeling that by tightening the crop and bringing out the window, door, and vines more it will only strengthen the image. I'm glad the tones are working for you. Thanks

Is that dictionary there so you can look up the real spellings?

I was going to recommend cropping off that spot but decided to blather on about that other stuff. If you need that aspect ratio, I'd leave it or clone it rather than lose anything off the edges though. It's not a huge distraction and adds further to the grittiness of the neighborhood so leaving it is ok too.

[readingr]

Gary,

Personally I think it works with and without the spot, so its all up to you. With thespot it balances the ivy without it then you may need to tilt the base just a tad to straighten it against the frame, but that could be me holding the card awkwardly.

Roger

[Sebastian]

Gary,

It seems...unrefined. First, I think the doors and graffiti would benefit from more contrast. I would like to see more rich blacks, and the white paint to pop. That said, I find the ivy and the sidewalk to be detrimental to what I perceive the intended subject to be. I suggest you experiment with different crops. Although I love the 3:2 aspect ratio, we as photographers are not married to it. This would be one of those times I would experiment with different crops to try to bring out what it was that intrigued you about this scene. I am thinking square, though I have not taken the time to try it.

[Overbeyond]

Gary,

It seems...unrefined. First, I think the doors and graffiti would benefit from more contrast. I would like to see more rich blacks, and the white paint to pop. That said, I find the ivy and the sidewalk to be detrimental to what I perceive the intended subject to be. I suggest you experiment with different crops. Although I love the 3:2 aspect ratio, we as photographers are not married to it. This would be one of those times I would experiment with different crops to try to bring out what it was that intrigued you about this scene. I am thinking square, though I have not taken the time to try it.

Hello Sebastian
Out of interest Seb and for discussions sake, what do you percieve the intended subject to be? The house without the ivy? Also I think any further contrast on the graffiti on the door would possibly give it a more congested and distorted appearance and make it harder to "read" although I might be wrong on this. I'm interested on how you are reading this shot.
Tom

[Sebastian]

Good question Tom.

To me, it's the window, door, and the textures and patterns created by the level of distress and the amount of graffiti. That is what my eye is drawn to. Wether or not that's what Gary intended is tough to say, I don't know what drew him to this scene, but it's what catches my eye the most. That being said, the ivy and sidewalk don't add anything in my mind, and in turn actually detract from what I personally really want to focus on.

As for the contrast, the blacks just seem to be a bit washed out, and the paint blends into the wall and is hard to read. But remember that looking at the monitor and commenting on that aspect is largely irrelevant. Unless we were looking at prints together in the same room, my comments need to be taken with a large grain of salt.

[OldSchool]

Hi Gary,

I'll not echo any of the previous comments. However, I do think this location is worthy of adding to your series.

The thing that caught my eye on this image, however, is the angle of view. I think pretty much all the shots I've seen in your “urban” series are shot square on. And, this (for me) is a distinctive style that I like about the series. In this shot, however, there is a slight angle between the building front and the image frame. If you re-shoot, consider a few frames with things squared up.

BR,
Tim

[Overbeyond]

Good question Tom.

To me, it's the window, door, and the textures and patterns created by the level of distress and the amount of graffiti. That is what my eye is drawn to. Wether or not that's what Gary intended is tough to say, I don't know what drew him to this scene, but it's what catches my eye the most. That being said, the ivy and sidewalk don't add anything in my mind, and in turn actually detract from what I personally really want to focus on.

As for the contrast, the blacks just seem to be a bit washed out, and the paint blends into the wall and is hard to read. But remember that looking at the monitor and commenting on that aspect is largely irrelevant. Unless we were looking at prints together in the same room, my comments need to be taken with a large grain of salt.

I know what you mean Seb and I agree about how we should see them together under laboratory conditions ;) (prints in hands). I am imagining Gary's series on the wall. I see lots of images very similar in mood and composition. More recent submissions on this forum from Gary has featured quiet a bit of grafitti and interesting doors and windows so to me the ivy becomes more important in preventing some images becoming too similar. But especially in this photograph I feel the ivy takes on the character of another type of graffiti that matches to an extent with the ivy/graffiti on the door. The blacks being washed out; is this due to the overall toning Gary decided to give to the image (a toning I must admit I have still to come to terms with.)
But it's brilliant that we all don't see things the same way.

Hand me my wine Mrs.

Tom

[Sebastian]

I see what you're saying.

[Liz]

Gary,
I like this image a lot. The only nitpic/subjective thought I had was wondering about the "green" color of the ivy. I know that's the way it is, but just wondered how it would look in b&w.

Maria

This scene looked like it had more potential than i believe i captured here.As with all from this series, i selectively colored and toned this. I have not added this to my works , and wonder what your thoughts on it are.
Thanks

[amithi]

I think this is a great shot-- the ivy, ole brick, and graffitti together catch the eye. Its not just another vandalized building... I agree with Marty about doing a full color version of it. I'd like to see that.

[payn817]

I think the ivy adds to this shot. It gives it an abandoned, almost overgrown look. It's as if you have discovered a place with such a past as the locals have let it grow over to hide it. I wonder what the history is here. As for the spot, IMO it holds my eyes in the frame. Without it, I drift out of the lower left corner. It adds balance to the oppsoite dark corner, and further adds to the opposite two corners which are much lighter.

As for the tones, you know I am a huge fan of the tones you produce, and this is no exception. It will be a wonderful addition to the series.

[gahspidy]

Well, this thread has turned to be a most valuable discussion for me, especially regarding some of the immediate concerns I had about this picture.

PlantedTao,Sebastian, Tim, Liz, Amithi, Payn817, thanks for adding your thoughts on this.

PT, i know what you mean by tight crop, but I feel that is what brings about what really attracted me to this scene. This building is surrounded by opne lot on each side and a landscape mode just did not make it for me.

Sebastian. . . When I looked at this picture again after the first comments were posted, I felt immediately that the contrast was softer than I thought it had been, and so I agree with you about that aspect. What attracted me to this scene immediately was the vines draping around this grungy structure. Also, the details and condition of the window and door is very important to me. And of course the grafitti adds another element. I wanted to bring these things right out front, and am even considering a tighter crop. It just feels to me that all I want here is Door, Window, Vines and everything else is irrelevant. Also, Sebastian, a good point about all looking at the same print in hand.In addition, some of the things that I like about this are the little details, that are not very clear in the monitor image but will be very noticeable in the print. btw, you are right about trying new crops, but I want the images in the series to be uniform in dimension.

I appreciate all the input and suggestions and note that some feel a looser crop would help this, but that really moves further away from my intention .

Payn. . I can understand what you mean by the oil stain and the balance it provided, but I think that with the tighter crop it was no longer needed to leverage the composition. Do you agree? I also appreciate your comments on the tones.
I am posting a re edit. I have cropped away the oil stain, tightened the crop overall, and slightly increased contrast.
I would like to know your take on this version in comparison.

[Sebastian]

Yeah, I think the redo is stronger. I'm glad you removed the stain, I found it distracting. Someone mentioned that it balanced the vines, but I feel the door balances the vines, the stain was just a stray element. Just my 2 cents as always.

[ChowChi-Ching]

Have you thought about doing something very different? Like leaving the vines in color and having the rest be B/W? I would like to see this picture in color.

[Yoyo Szeto]

Hi Gary,
I just want to add one point; the non-retangular window and door give a sense that the building is being distorted (due to poor maintenance..) which echoes well with the creeping plant.
yoyo

[Sebastian]

Have you thought about doing something very different? Like leaving the vines in color and having the rest be B/W? I would like to see this picture in color.

It's not different when EVERYONE does it!

[mpreslar]

Gary,

I like the tighter crop, and after reading the full thread including your intentions I think the image works very well. The vines and graffiti make such a wonderful contrast of age and modernity! Very nice!