Suicidal

a friend lost one of his close family members a few weeks ago. hes seriously thinking about committing suicide. anyway. i was at his place a few days ago, like you can see, hes still affected by the loss of his family member. i managed to take the bullets away from him a few days after i heard what he was trying to do.

i tried to calm him down, but he was just sitting there with the gun in his mouth, pulling the trigger. i was allowed to take a few pictures of him and i also got his "yes" to post it.

i havent heard from him in a few days, i hope everything is ok....

the hard shadow from the nose kinda ruins it, but i think its good documentation
http://erikholsvik.com/ting/haha.jpg

Instead of playing with cameras and toys I feel you and your friends time would have been better served by seeking advice and counselling.

Although I appreciate and encourage all art (including photography and music) that takes risks and delves into controversial topics, I don't agree with the fact that this photograph was even taken. As it was said in the previous comment, your time would have been better spent getting help. This is also assuming that your friend was indeed suicidal, and not just posing for the picture...

I'm incredibly disgusted by the fact you ACTUALLY took pictures of this.

I second that. Every photographer has to have standards in which they live by and take photos by, and you make it obvious that your standards are not very high. Instead of taking pictures of him trying to kill himself, why didn't you take the gun away from him, and get him the help he needs? I am against censoring people, because we all have rights gauranteed by the first amendment. I do wish you would have asked a moderator first, and put more of a disclaimer in your title.

As illustrated here, some people have no understanding of countries and cultures other than their own, and absolutely no comprehension of depression and suicide.

Despite the well meaning but less than helpful comments, and the less than perfect lighting technique, it is nevertheless an extremely effective photo depicting the low of depression, the anguish and the desire to end it all. This photo has genuine impact.

Outstanding work!

Ronnoco

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Originally Posted by Ronnoco

Outstanding work!

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There has to be a point when one has to put the camera down and to quit looking through the viewfinder, and help their friend who is clearly anguishing over a family members death. I know I didn't want a camera my face when the same thing happeneded to me. This person clearly has problems with coping and they need to get the help they need. It comes down to photo ethics, and even though the photographer for the yes from his friend, it seems like he would maybe want to respect his friends privacy when he going through such a traumatic experience.

That was no time for a photo. I can't even imagine grabbing my camera and shooting a scene like this when my friend has thoughts of killing himself and is extremely depressed. If you were a journalist covering a sad event that would be one thing but It's YOUR friend and YOU were at his place (I'm assuming to calm him down). Asking him to pose for a photo at that stage of depression ISN'T being HELPFUL to YOUR FRIEND.

If you are sincere and your friend is indeed wanting to kill himself, I would suggest you have an ethical responsibility to get him help. He his clearly displaying the advanced stages of suicidal contemplation. If you are in Norway, please all 815-33-300. If you are in the US, please call 1-800-273-TALK or better yet have your friend do it. Suicide SHOULD NOT be taken lightly. Please seek help for him.

Well, by the reaction of everyone including myself, this is a very strong image. It hits on a very emotional level, as you can tell by the responses. All tones, composition, style and what not fly out the window with this much emotional impact.

IF? this is your FRIEND...it seems you made a poor choice of when to take a photo. Your eye is good...your heart is stone cold...not something I would be proud of.

Perhaps this photo would have been more acceptable had your friend asked you to photograph him in retrospect, after surviving the loss, to depict the pain and desperation he went through. However, even though such a shot has incredible impact, IMO, suicide is not something to be marveled at.

OK OK So we all agree this photo was taken at a very bad time, but what is a good time to take a photo? Sometimes we just aim and shoot, as photographers we all have that moment of 'to shoot or not to shoot". It can happen to any of us. Do I agree with the photo? NO.

if you have to ask whether or not to take the photo then it is probably best to keep your finger off the shutter release.

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Originally Posted by Ronnoco

As illustrated here, some people have no understanding of countries and cultures other than their own, and absolutely no comprehension of depression and suicide.

Despite the well meaning but less than helpful comments, and the less than perfect lighting technique, it is nevertheless an extremely effective photo depicting the low of depression, the anguish and the desire to end it all. This photo has genuine impact.

Outstanding work!

Ronnoco

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Ronnoco
You are obviously the only person in the entire world that understands suicide.
This has nothing to do with understanding of other cultures or comprehension of depression.
If people choose to dislike something, please don't insult them for that. Nobody here has insulted you for your opinions and bad manners.
You are outstanding in your own field, so could you close the gate and stay in it.
How about a photograph from you?

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Originally Posted by Guitarboy

Although I appreciate and encourage all art (including photography and music) that takes risks and delves into controversial topics, I don't agree with the fact that this photograph was even taken. As it was said in the previous comment, your time would have been better spent getting help. This is also assuming that your friend was indeed suicidal, and not just posing for the picture...

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Personally I am pretty confident that the subject and the person with the camera were both posing and attention seeking in this instance.

I certainly hope this was just a staged shot. However, I was always taught to never point a gun at anything unless you intend to kill it. The main reason for this is because of accidental discharges. Even under the most stringent scrutiny, accidents happen. Take for example Brandon Lee (son of Bruce Lee). Killed on the set by a prop gun. And he was not the first to die accidentally and definitely not the last.
We've discussed on here before, how far is too far. This is one that has overstepped the bounds of art and possibly humanity. In response to Ronnoco, I've lived in many societies and am very accepting of most things. However, just because something is o.k. in a society, doesn't make it right. We all have our beliefs, but there needs to be a line drawn that should not be crossed.
Oh well...just my 2 cents...
Ken

There was a picture posted here not long ago, that was not as graphic, but got similar responses. At least that one was admittedly posed.

Personally I find the remarks posted as a description of the picture to be what's appalling here. So fine, an "opportunity" was seen and taken. Yippee...the photo has some impact. But you haven't heard from your friend in a few days, you know he's suicidal, and you "hope he's okay"??

Alrighty then.

I for one am glad to see all of these comments.
But what about the aesthetic issues of this photograph?
Are there any? What are they?
Brian

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Originally Posted by mtbbrian

I for one am glad to see all of these comments.
But what about the aesthetic issues of this photograph?
Are there any? What are they?
Brian

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I would have commented more on the photo itself, but honestly I had a hard time looking at it long enough to form an opinion other than what I posted. I'm not trying to be a shmuck by saying that, but I just couldn't look at it as I would other photos. Sorry.

Emily

Hello everybody. I've been trolling around here for a while and while this is probably NOT the best thread to make my first post, but here goes anyways.
First off, I think this is a staged photo. That being said, the color doesn't seem to work for me. If it was black and white and maybe a tad brighter it might look 'better'.
However, if this is not a posed photo, you've got some serious issues. A "friend" does not take pictures of a friend with a pistol in his or her mouth. PERIOD. A friend finds help for a friend.


As for Ronnoco...maybe a month in a cannibal tribe might alter your perception of what is acceptible from other cultures. I mean if you're fine with them eating you, then problem solved.

Sorry if I come off harsh, but suicide is not something that I am a fan of. Suicide as a way out of your problems is a copout.

to get some things straight.

some of you got it. the photo is staged. i made up the story to get some reactions about the photo. instead i got 20 comments on how bad friend i was and other things about suicide. i can admit that the story was a bit harsh, maybe a bit to realistic for many. but the photo got tons of reactions and i think the photo woke some feelings in many of you. thats exactly the purpose of a good photo.

anyway, if the photo offended anyone; im sorry for not leaving a warning in the topic.
maybe anyone have something else to say now that you know its not "real".

This is a tragic image of your friend but no more tragic than many of the images i've seen in magazines and books on wars. This image effects me just like the Viet Nam Officer blowing the brains out of a man almost naked or pictures of starving children or an Israeli tank bulldozing a West Bank home in Palestine or the Nazi's consentration camps photos from WWII.

Human kind has a lot of problems and it's easy to judge people but I think what may be needed is some human intervention. I hope you can help your friend before it's too late.

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Originally Posted by Galningen

to get some things straight.

some of you got it. the photo is staged. i made up the story to get some reactions about the photo. instead i got 20 comments on how bad friend i was and other things about suicide. i can admit that the story was a bit harsh, maybe a bit to realistic for many. but the photo got tons of reactions and i think the photo woke some feelings in many of you. thats exactly the purpose of a good photo.

anyway, if the photo offended anyone; im sorry for not leaving a warning in the topic.
maybe anyone have something else to say now that you know its not "real".

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For starters, if you have to make up a story to get the reaction, then the photo hasn't done it...your story has. If this WAS real, yes, I would think you were a pretty lousy friend. Sorry if that comes off as harsh too, but I know from the prior thread that many have had too close experience with the subject matter to be emotionally manipulated because you wanted a reaction.

As for the photo...sorry, but I still can't look at it and give you a valid critique.

I agree with Julsoph, if you have to make up a story then your photo hasn't worked, but if you want a critique not that we got all the other nasty and lousy things out of the way then here goes.

Your lighting is off. I don;t know what you were using to light your subject, but it doesn't really work. You only see half the subjects face, and it looks like you used a one light setup at about a 45 degree (also known as a Rembrandt light set up or a one light). If you are going to light it, you might want to try adding a fill light further away from your main light and on the other side of the subject. A hair light would help bring out some more details such as the top of the head.

Black and white would have definitly helped but not much. Even staged this is a horrible shot. You should never play with guns even if they are unloaded. It sends the wrong message and is dangerous. I don't discredit your photographic abilities just on your judgement. I don't think this is the reaction you were looking before, but you have know that in the society we live in, whwn you post a photo an staged suicide you are going to get strong responses. You don't know the people on this board any more than I do, but some these people could have had close ties with people who attempt or are successful in suicide.

From a person who battles with depression all I can say is get your friend some help, and offer to go with him. Its ok to ask for help, I know it saved my life and I hope and pray that your friend is ok.

Zack

Is it staged? For all we know you could be lying just to cover up the fact that you're a bastard. See how lying works?

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Originally Posted by Galningen

to get some things straight.

some of you got it. the photo is staged. i made up the story to get some reactions about the photo. instead i got 20 comments on how bad friend i was and other things about suicide. i can admit that the story was a bit harsh, maybe a bit to realistic for many. but the photo got tons of reactions and i think the photo woke some feelings in many of you. thats exactly the purpose of a good photo.

anyway, if the photo offended anyone; im sorry for not leaving a warning in the topic.
maybe anyone have something else to say now that you know its not "real".

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Sorry the photo did not get tons of reactions. Your stupidity did.
Your text and sincerity with the photograph was transparant and your explanation above confirms to me that you are a prat with no credibility.

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Originally Posted by Galningen

to get some things straight.

some of you got it. the photo is staged. i made up the story to get some reactions about the photo. instead i got 20 comments on how bad friend i was and other things about suicide. i can admit that the story was a bit harsh, maybe a bit to realistic for many. but the photo got tons of reactions and i think the photo woke some feelings in many of you. thats exactly the purpose of a good photo.

anyway, if the photo offended anyone; im sorry for not leaving a warning in the topic.
maybe anyone have something else to say now that you know its not "real".

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Oh, well in that case... no, its still a little much. Looks like a frozen moment in a suspense movie (like the suicide scene in "The 6th Sense" or something). I'm still a newbie so I can't critique the technical stuff really. What I will say is that its hard to look at the shot for more than a few seconds because of the feelings it evokes. Therefore, I say it's not that great of a photo, since it's not really something one can enjoy time and again.

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Originally Posted by Galningen

but the photo got tons of reactions and i think the photo woke some feelings in many of you. thats exactly the purpose of a good photo.

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Your story got the reaction. Just clarifying.

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Originally Posted by LeeIs

Your story got the reaction. Just clarifying.

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wouldnt be the same if this thread had the same story and a photo of a smiling boy, now would it?

just wondering

edit: and for you who said i suck at taking photos etc. suck on this http://forums.photographyreview.com/...ad.php?t=18596

was featured photo a few months ago..

i think its funny to see the ractions and personal attacks after i posted that its staged.

Human suffering is always a topic people are intrigued with. Plenty of photographers have explored far darker concepts and many of them have won the pulitzer with the resulting images. Public reaction to these photos has sometimes been so severe that the photographer has themselves committed suicide. I am sure many of you recal Kevin Carter's New York Times winning shot of the sudhanese child with a vulture in the background waiting for the child to die. Kevin obeyed the un order not to touch children (as disease was killing more than the famine and the well fed white journalists were contributing to it's spread, but i digress) public outcry against Kevin was so severe he committed suicide later the same year. This begs the question at what point do should we put down our cameras and help? Those who study people in extremes will often comment on how the mind/body goes into "autopilot" and does what it is trained to. I know a journalist who whilst in chile witnessed his girlfriend be being beaten by police in what had started as a peaceful protest. He kept taking pictures and then fled back to the press office before his film was destroyed - years and continents later he is still torn with the guilt, yet he knew that getting involved probably would have resulted in his own arrest and possible torture and death. I also had a high school teacher who hours after he witnessed his entire family executed by idi amin (spelling) went to work as he didn't know what else to do. Staged or not with text or not (and plenty of images rely on text.. it is called art or journalism) this image has suceeded in generating a reaction and imho it has therefore worked. debating the morals / ethics of taking the photo and the artistic merit of the image are perhaps better left to other forumns but i don't think it is fair to personally attack the photographer for their action or lack thereof.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Galningen

to get some things straight.

some of you got it. the photo is staged. i made up the story to get some reactions about the photo. instead i got 20 comments on how bad friend i was and other things about suicide. i can admit that the story was a bit harsh, maybe a bit to realistic for many. but the photo got tons of reactions and i think the photo woke some feelings in many of you. thats exactly the purpose of a good photo.

anyway, if the photo offended anyone; im sorry for not leaving a warning in the topic.
maybe anyone have something else to say now that you know its not "real".

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Julsoph is right. It's not he photo that got reaction, It's your stupid story. The image is clear, the subject really brought out a clear picture of anguish and depression, but it's really the story that got our attention.

Let's ease up here some shall we..
Everyone..
This is critique forum and not a personal attack forum.
Thanks
Brian

Wow, sounds to me like a lot of people are upset about being hoodwinked, and a lot of others are mad about something they don't agree with.

Two things are being forgotten here:

1) Suicide, depression, etc. have long been legitimate subjects for artisitc expression. Making it a photo doesn't make it any different.
2) If you don't agree with the image, move on, and don't look at it anymore.

Now for a critique.

The harsh side lighting works to isolate the subject, and does a really good job of highlighting the tears on his face. I think where it falls apart is that the hand and head look like they're stacked on top of each other, there are no angles for the eye to follow. The framing also could be made into a vertical, helping the viewer concentrate more on the subject.

Too centered, can't see the gun well enough, and I think it should have been a vertical. It is, however, a strong image. And there's nothing wrong with including a story with a photo. Sometimes a story is part what makes an image - be it truth or fiction. In this case it got a powerful response. If it were me, I'd consider that a success.

I'm glad no one was really in danger here. And I commend the photographer for having the courage to fess up to his deception. And then stick around for the abuse. Now let's all move on and either shoot or critique some more photos. Anyone who wants to discuss this more should start a new thread in ViewFinder, as this is a critique forum and not an ethics forum.