A serious favour to ask ...

[Didache]

Hi all

In just over a week's time I will be submitting a panel for a Royal Photographic Society distinction. It's something I have been working on for quite some time. With 10 days to go I am getting the jitters! The panel is submitted as mounted prints and is scrutinised by a panel of experiences Royal Society judges who decide if it meets the required standard.

The favour is this: I would really, really appreciate anyone who could spend the time looking at my projected panel, and alternates. I am not looking for "nice shots" (although that is always pleasant) but SERIOUS critique, especially from folk who move in competitive/pro circles.

The panel is not meant to be just 10 good images, but is meant to show coherently a range of approaches. It is meant to hang together as a whole, and not just as a collection of images.

The panel layout is at: http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=ymd6...ze=1&nostamp=1

The images (and alternates) can all be seen at: http://album2591.fotopic.net/c1114936.html


I really appreciate anyone taking the time for this.

Cheers
Mike

[Mr Yuck]

"The Orangery" and "Vatican Museum" both have similar (same?) flooring. And the shots seem pretty related, the composition is also pretty similar, both down a hall at an angle.

I'd recommend checking how you like Templi where Orangery is.

Also, Privy Garden seems a bit awkward with the hedge on the left dominating the image, but it does stand out well from the others.

That's all I have for now, I'll have to come back to this, (I'm by no means pro so dont weigh my suggestions too heavily)

As a whole, the images are pleasing and the variation is good. I love the collection, good luck!

[Didache]

Mr Yuck - thanks for commenting. Yours is exactly the kind of thoughtful perspective I'm hoping for here. I know exactly what you mean about Vatican Museum and The Orangery. I have thought about flipping one of them and using them as the beginning and end of a row, in order to hold the panel in - unfortunately one is landscape and one is portrait, so I am not sure that would work. It is a possibility though in any case to add variation.

Interestingly, the Privy Garden is the one image I am not entirely sure about - in a way you have confirmed the feeling. I will certainly mull it over.

Thanks
Mike

[Greg McCary]

I agree with Mr. Yuck.You have some very good images to choose from. I really like Ancient & Moderny as a subsitute for one of the images. But remember I have only been at this a short while. I would lean torward keeping Vatican Museam because of the splendid lighting. It could almost be considered a night shot something you don't have with the other images. I would think showing your skills in that area would be important. If I were a judge I would be looking at a wide range of skills from a photographer. Portriat, Landscape, Macro, Night shot, Wild Life, Sports ect. But as I stated consider my inexperiance and take the advise as such.
Greg

[Didache]

Thanks Greg for your comments. I agree with you about the Vatican Museum shot - it is a "definite" as I actually consider it to be among my top 2 or 3 images ever. I will think about the Ancient & Modern one too - I actually won a trophy for that last year. The one problem with it is that it has been done rather a lot (maybe over-done) by London photographers. Still, I'll keep it in mind as I rather like it anyway.

Cheers
Mike

[gahspidy]

Mike, from the short time I was able to spend looking at the panel, and then the individual shots I could say that i feel all of the images are very good. The one thing that concerns me is, from my somewhat short time in exhibitng, I have learned that judges and curators like to look at a group of images that adhere to, or build upon a definite theme or body of work. "On the Backfoot" "the sentinel" and " boys night out" seem to be somewhat out of place with the rest of them. There should be a connection between all of the images, and I'm not sure where the connection is for those three. I do think you have a group of very nice images, and I wish you the well deserved attention and recognition.

[Didache]

gahspidy .. thank you for taking the time to have a look. I appreciate your effort. You put your finger on EXACTLY the reason I am jittery here!

The guidelines for the Licentiate of the RPS say two things:

a) The assessment criteria fall into 3 sections:
1. Control of the Medium – Camera Work, Technical Quality & Appropriateness of Technique.
2. Seeing & Thinking – Visual Awareness, Communication
3. Breadth of Approach – Range of Work, Presentation.

In other words, based on the third criteria, I do have to show a range of work and styles.

b) There are no categories for the ‘LRPS’; we are happy to view a varied set of images, in other words they don’t have to be ‘themed’, (although some applicants choose to). .... However it should be noted that if an applicant chooses a very mixed submission, it can
make it harder to sequence or arrange a set of images to make a harmonious and balanced presentation.


So it doesn't HAVE to have a theme, but the panel still has to hang together!

I agree that the three images you have mentioned are probably the hardest to make harmonious with the others and I will certainly consider that when I make my final choice - so thank you for your input there. Sometimes you need someone "outside" to point things out.

What I will probably do is get all the prints in a large room and set them up and juggle them around until I get a pattern I can live with. I any case, I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

Cheers
Mike

[gahspidy]

Mike, that specifically addresses my concerns and that should be that. However, I just recently submitted works to two different juried shows. Each allowed five pictures submitted as prints (approx 8x10 each) They will choose only one or none from each participant, for a total of 30 pictures out of the hundreds or possibly thousands that submit. I had called one of the galleries to clarify something for me. In the conversation I had with the galleries owner, I asked him if it were ok to submit 5 images that were stand alone shots or if it were best to have a theme. He stated that although he told the judges ( one is the curator of Moma, museum of modern art, and the other the curator of the Brooklyn museum of contemporary art) to choose the 30 best images, that from past experience, he knows the judges tend to like to see a related body of work based on a theme, and that I should use my better judgement. Well, one package I had already printed out and left it at that (5 totally different pictures) but the other submission I put together based on a theme/series.
So, I would just say to consider having them all tie in together around a common denominator. Keep them diverse from a technical and creative stand, but still tie into a given theme, if you can.
Just my feeling

[Didache]

gahspidy - I suppose that the "theme" (if there is such a thing) in my work is travel/architecture - most of my pictures tend to have buildings in them. I will see if I can get a panel which focusses more on that, and see if I like it.

I do have another string to my bow here .. there are two members of my camera club with RPS distinctions (an Associate which is the level above the one I am going for, and a Fellow, which means "god"!) ... hopefully they will be at the club tomorrow night. I will pick their brains on this one.

Thanks again
Mike

[Greg McCary]

Mike,
For what it's worth and consider the source, "on the back foot" seems to be the weakest link to me. I have looked at your pictures several times and it just, for some reason, doesn't fit your style. Also, even though it is a great picture and I would have been proud to have taken it, it just doesn't stand up to your other pictures composition wise. I guess what bothers me is I feel there are to many distractions in it. I know it's late in the ballgame for a critique but the girls head and also the ball seem to get lost in the background to me. I like the picture, I just feel you have better. And remember the source. I am still a novice at this.
Greg

[readingr]

Mike,

These are all excellent images and its hard to decide what to say.

The panel as Gary has said seems to be at odds with the "boys night out", "Sentinel", and "On the Back Foot", but it all depends on the title your going with to the panel.

If its travel then bring "Santorini" into the panel instead of the "Sentinel" and then it seems to hang together for me.

However, if its a different title then all of the above three may need to be changed.

By the way and word of caution - I have never entered a competition yet so you need to bear that in mind when reading this critique

Riger

[Didache]

Hi Roger

Thanks for taking the time to look. It doesn't matter if you are into competitions or not - I have learned to value your opinion.

One problem I have is that I don't have a bottomless pit of images to choose from! In the end I am reconciled to the fact that I probably couldn't put together 10 images all to one theme, and all of the standard they are looking for, although if I proceed up the RPS ladder I will have to do.

I think one solution might be to make the top row to one theme, and then the first and last of the second row to match each other, with the middle three being "odds and sods". I'll see what it looks like.

As it is next week (I have to go to Bath on Thursday for it) I will probably post in this thread my "final" choice at the beginning of the week. In the end, all you can do is your best, and at least if it fails, they tell you exactly why so you can resubmit.

I look forward to your call in due course too!

Cheers
Mike

[Overbeyond]

Very difficult this. Hard to know what to include and leave out.I had a go and made presentation as follows
Top Row
Vatican Museum, Orangery, Privy Garden

Mid Row
Painter, Art Chairs, Santorani, Ancient And Modern

Bottom Row
Anchorman, Boys Night Out, Feet

This arrangement makes the spacing a little more difficult but it can work out.
They honestly are all good shots. I choose on what I considered to be the most interesting.
I wish you the very best of luck Mike

Tom

[Didache]

Overbeyond - thanks for looking and commenting. As with everyone else, I do appreciate the time you take. The format here is two rows of 5 (that is their rule). If you have a moment, how would you arrange them on that basis?

Cheers
Mike

[livin4lax09]

Mike,

being focused on sports photography, I would personally leave the tennis shot out. It's not a bad photo by any means, but what I have been taught that you shouldn't include images just to show that you can something, you should include only your very best images. Like, when applying for sportsshooter, many people have said don't include a ton of different sports, pick your best sport and include images mainly from that. You have VERY nice images, and I like them a lot, and I just don't feel the sports photo fits in as well, because it's a normal sports photo, and sports photography (for the most part) isn't as artistic as other types of photography. Maybe a more artistic sports photo, but I think the collection works well without it. This is of course just my 2 cents, so feel free to completely ignore anything I say I'm just passing on advice I've gotten from others!

As far as the others go, they are very nice images and you seem to have a knack for portraying architecture very pleasingly. I like the colors of the images, especially the ones in *venice?* I have commented on a few of your images before, and the writing on the floor is a very nice image. In relation to the set-up, do you think there is any way you would like to display them differently, or is your current positioning what you really want? I only mention it because our professor lately has had us focus a lot on presentation, and how just the different ways of presenting a collection can have a drastic difference on how people view them. I have no opinions here, just pointed out the fact that presentation is very important. Best of luck with everything!

[drg]

Mike,

I have been considering my response, and to the ideas already offered I'd add these notes.

The tennis shot has an awkward feel compared to the rest of your selections. In looking through your gallery here at PR I wonder if you would be better served with the cycling shot you have, whether in its partially desaturated form or another image that would tie travel, architecture, and sport together. I like the dynamic quality of the tennis player, but it doesn't fit with the rest of what I see you displayig.

The Anchorman is one of my favorite images that has been posted for sometime on PR. If definitely must be included, do you have partner piece that you could use or have considered? More on the partner or 'bookend' idea in a moment.

The Sentinel doesn't seem to fit at all.

Your alternative photograph, Ancient and Modern is I believe one of your stronger photographs. It combines the themes and subjects that are topical to the majority of the rest of your work(that I have seen). The strengths it displays are from composition of the subject and not from good fortune, such as having a beautiful sky to accent the piece as a large element of the composition.

The Santorini photograph you have in your panel is a fine piece of work for travel or visual interest. There are some others in your gallery that have equal or more impact for a different reason. The 'bright white' quality of those building against the sky or in contrast to the one domed roof provide classic travel/architectural shots, and do something else . . .

The Santorini photos provide a partner or bookend shot to the ship. The white-bright, the minimalist content, or precise, clean, and ordered content of those images (Santorini scenes from PR Gallery and the Anchorman) pair up and show a theme both technical and subjective. The travel and exotic local elements match up and finish off that element of your work.

On a similar note, the Orangery and Vatican shots have a similar quality. The Orangery I am not as convinced of the strength of the image, particularly when printed. The reflections of the ceiling on the floor in the right hand portion of the photograph breaks the geometric precision, in comparison the the Vatican image where the reflections are patterened in a more complimentary way. I'd still use both of them, but perhaps arrange the panel so that they are fairly distant and one has to look back and forth between them and they are not side by side. I have received comments from photos shown that were similar, but differently lighted or had shadows at different angles about one being more 'something' or 'less' something simply because of how they were hung.

That's all for the moment other than to say, consider using the Churchill and Big Ben photo. It has strength and humour. Best of thoughts to you while preparing. I know it can be nerve-wracking at times.

[readingr]

Hi Roger

Thanks for taking the time to look. It doesn't matter if you are into competitions or not - I have learned to value your opinion.

One problem I have is that I don't have a bottomless pit of images to choose from! In the end I am reconciled to the fact that I probably couldn't put together 10 images all to one theme, and all of the standard they are looking for, although if I proceed up the RPS ladder I will have to do.

I think one solution might be to make the top row to one theme, and then the first and last of the second row to match each other, with the middle three being "odds and sods". I'll see what it looks like.

As it is next week (I have to go to Bath on Thursday for it) I will probably post in this thread my "final" choice at the beginning of the week. In the end, all you can do is your best, and at least if it fails, they tell you exactly why so you can resubmit.

I look forward to your call in due course too!

Cheers
Mike

Mike,

I haven't forgotten the call, still trying to work out when work will ease off a bit. Heavy into designing a system at the moment and writing and reviewing loads of documents. Will try and arrange something with you either end of this week or next when things I hope will ease up a bit.

Roger

[Didache]

drg

Thanks so much for your comments. You have obviously spent some time and effort, and for that I'm grateful.

I agree that the Anchorman is possibly the strongest image. One decision I HAVE made is to put it either first on the top row, or in the middle of that row. I may well pair it with Santorini, as you suggest (both images were taken on the same cruise!) I had sort of discarded Santorini as an idea, but I will seriously reconsider it. Maybe a Santorini at the beginning and end of a row, with Anchorman in the middle?

Similarly with Ancient and Modern - perhaps replacing The Sentinel.

I will also definitely include both Vatican Museum and The Orangery for exactly the reason you have said. I printed off a flipped version of the Museum this afternoon as it gives these two more of a symmetry.

Dropping the tennis one is harder .. as it is one of my own personal favourites. I know I might have to drop a strong image in the interests of the whole, but it is really hard!!! In a way, it would be easier to submit 20 images rather than just 10!

Thanks again for your helpful thoughts. If I do wind up getting the distinction, at least part of the credit will be due to the various critiquers who have commented on my work over the last couple of years.

Cheers
Mike

[Greg McCary]

drg

Thanks so much for your comments. You have obviously spent some time and effort, and for that I'm grateful.

I agree that the Anchorman is possibly the strongest image. One decision I HAVE made is to put it either first on the top row, or in the middle of that row. I may well pair it with Santorini, as you suggest (both images were taken on the same cruise!) I had sort of discarded Santorini as an idea, but I will seriously reconsider it. Maybe a Santorini at the beginning and end of a row, with Anchorman in the middle?

Similarly with Ancient and Modern - perhaps replacing The Sentinel.

I will also definitely include both Vatican Museum and The Orangery for exactly the reason you have said. I printed off a flipped version of the Museum this afternoon as it gives these two more of a symmetry.

Dropping the tennis one is harder .. as it is one of my own personal favourites. I know I might have to drop a strong image in the interests of the whole, but it is really hard!!! In a way, it would be easier to submit 20 images rather than just 10!

Thanks again for your helpful thoughts. If I do wind up getting the distinction, at least part of the credit will be due to the various critiquers who have commented on my work over the last couple of years.

Cheers
Mike

I can see why it is hard. They are all so good. I wish you well and let us know what happens.
Good Luck,
Greg

[readingr]

Mike,

Just been throught some of your on-line pics and I think you might want to include "Santa Maria Maggiore" or "Vatican - Stained Glass Detail" instead of the tennis player.

They are much more in keeping with the other photos in the grouping you have especially the Santa Maria Maggiore".

Just my opinion of course.

Roger

[Overbeyond]

Hello Again Mike

Top Row (More Formal Style)
Museum, Orangery, Privy, Templi, Anc And Modern

Bottom Row (More Informal Style)
Anchor Man, Santorini, Boys Night, Art Chairs, Feet

It would be great if Templi was not so tight on either side.

Same shots as I had before except that I swapped Painter for Templi. I just think it fits better with this shape. i think this shape and arrangement looked well on my sheet of paper anyway.
Hope this helps
Tom

[GB1]

Mike - Not sure when you posted this, but here's my opinion. Note that I haven't read any of the other posts.

Many of the shots are very well done and many qualify as a coherent group. The architecture ones are the photos I see having this quality. The bottom right four and the top center ("Emerald") shot seem to work well together. The fellow on the bridge overlooking the water is interesting, but is somewhat limited by the fact that he's looking away from the camera, so we can't see his expression.

The other two architectural shots, the yellow-roofed hall and the top right shot, seem to be slightly more of something like 'record shots' to me. They don't seem to have the artistic touch that the others do. Just my opinion (of course).

I see the tennis player and the squirral as total outliers here. They don't match the contex of the other shots. I do like the tennis shot and I think that it shows that you can capture action as well as still, creative photos, but if you are looking for a theme or coherency then I think it doesn't belong. Same for the nice little creature there... fun shot, but simply so different from the others... makes me worried that it will seem very out of place.

Anyway, that's all I have! Good luck.

GB

Edit - Just looked at the alternates: seems like "Santorini" and "Templi" are great replacements for the two I mentioned above. I might lighten Templi up a little though, seems a tad dark, like the camera meter was fooled by the white buildings.

Good luck again.

[Didache]

Overbeyond .. thanks again for taking the time. Later on today I'll put the panel you suggest up in my living room and see how it gels.

Cheers
Mike

[Didache]

GB1 - probably a good thing you didn't look at the other posts, so you weren't too influenced by them.

This has been an interesting thing to do - in many ways some of the advice has been conflicting - but through it one or two common factors have shown up. Clearly the meerkat photo and, to a lesser extent, the tennis one don't seem quite to "fit" and I may well take that advice. You have confirmed that. You have also confirmed that the architectural theme ought to be a little more dominant than it is.

In the end I will of course have to make my own mind up - it will have to be this weekend. It promises to be a nerve-wracking week until next Thursday morning when the distinction panel meets to assess all this!

Thanks again
Mike

[KyRain]

In MHO, there is a common theme among these pics and it is travel/tourism; or even
recreation time. I would title it "Class Act" , "1st Class" or "World Class" as they
all exhibit class and are timeless in their beauty and wonder. I too like the tennis player and would keep her. Or because all the pictures are displayed in a unique perspective
I would consider ... "A Traveler's Perspective" or a "Traveler's Sojourn"....something along those lines....and I wish you well, your photos are topnotch. Nora