Sad Sight

[ChowChi-Ching]

(Changed the title to better reflect my feelings of this picture)

Saw this when my husband went to stay in a motel - not this one - it bothered us to see this - the American Flag was taken in shortly after this picture....

(BTW - I have no problem with people flying other flags, but not in place of the American Flag - at least not while you are in this country)

[Kajuah]

With all due respect, **** that.

Yes that's right, **** that.

Freedom of speech, it's in canada's freedom of rights documents and it's in the american equivalent which is basically the same country regardless of the mumbo jumbo nationalism.

Not everyone in north america is from north america, not everyone is christian or jewish or muslim. Don't like it then move somewhere else because these countires are free countries based on freedom from persecution for race or religion and that's why everyone of my forefathers died for this dream of living in unity and peace where one could live in harmony with people of other cultures, religions, races in the same country despite our differences. Free to celebrate their own country, culture, heritage, beliefs, muse with our own. If someone doesn't want to fly an american flag, then so be it, let them fly their own flag or the queen of england's flag or the capital of the country of bumsex's flag.

I won't chastise you about the morality of that statement, but I will say one thing:

Don't like it then go on a flag burning spree.. or you know, just grow up a bit.


Nice picture by the way. Red bushes are a bit underexposed, and the sky is blown out; perhaps an ND4 filter would help to compensate that, or perhaps an increase in the aperture.

[OctoberLife]

I gotta agree with Kajuah...**** that.

If you really believe in your "flag" then you must believe this: I will not fight for your beliefs but I will fight for your right to have them.

Or however the hell it goes. The point? Get over it. You have every right to fly whatever flag you want on your own property. So do they. To be frank, mind your own buisiness if you don't like it.

[MarcusK]

Well how about we don't get into these discussions here? The ever lasting discussion of Free Speech allows ChowChi-Ching for their opinion, and you for yours....

Personally, I think the photo could still use some work: The composition is a bit off, there are too many distracting details, from the right and from the left. The cables on the left could be cloned out. the door and the window being cut is also distracting. The angle with respect to the building could have been better to place the light post and the top post on the roof on different vertical lines...

I do realize this was more about emotion than anything else, just thought since we are here, I would throw in the critique...

[Didache]

I too hope that discussions of this nature are avoided in here. However, at least it sets the context for the image which, I presume, was put here for critique?

My problem with it is that it would be very hard to discern the story from the photo alone. It could be a motel in Mexico for all the viewer knows, and the flags portion of the image is only a very small portion of the whole. In short, I think I'm saying that without being there, seeing what happened next, and sharing your view of it, the picture doesn't make a lot of sense.

Cheers
Mike

[mjs1973]

This image really has the potential to get an emotional reaction from viewers, as already shown by the other posts. I'm not sure if it's the photo or the comments of the photographer that are getting the reaction here.

For me, the photo, as a photo, doesn't really do much for me, but it does make a political statement. So I guess it works in that sense. I think the composition could use some work, but the message of the image is still pretty clear.

FYI: It is illegal to display another countries flag, above the US flag in America.

According to United States Code Section 7, Title Four, which states,
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.

[gahspidy]

Please, from this point on let there be no more discussion about the political or national point of view as this forum is not the place for these type debates or discussions.

I think the photograph is ok for the most part other than the technicals such as the blown out sky. I do notice there are many flag pole holders across the roof's edge and wonder if this place at times displays many diferent flags of different nations

[ChowChi-Ching]

Wow - I did not realize this would start so much controversy. This picture was taken in Wa, not in Mexico. For point being said, this motel had just recently been sold - It once held proudly the American Flag, it was while we were there that they were switching the flags. As previousely mentionted, while I do not have ANY problem with people from other countries or heritages showing their pride by hanging their flag, it should not be in place of ours AND I would expect other countries to feel the same way...........

Thanks for the critique!! It was helpful

[Dylan8i]

FYI: It is illegal to display another countries flag, above the US flag in America.

According to United States Code Section 7, Title Four, which states,
(c) No other flag or pennant should be placed above or, if on the same level, to the right of the flag of the United States of America, except during church services conducted by naval chaplains at sea, when the church pennant may be flown above the flag during church services for the personnel of the Navy. No person shall display the flag of the United Nations or any other national or international flag equal, above, or in a position of superior prominence or honor to, or in place of, the flag of the United States at any place within the United States or any Territory or possession thereof: Provided, That nothing in this section shall make unlawful the continuance of the practice heretofore followed of displaying the flag of the United Nations in a position of superior prominence or honor, and other national flags in positions of equal prominence or honor, with that of the flag of the United States at the headquarters of the United Nations.

read the bold statement above

how can one discern right or left when most flags ( think flag poles etc) can be walked around to the other side and the right and left are then switched.... seems like a way around that part of the law.

[ChowChi-Ching]

I did not want to start any arguments - It was a sight that evoked alot of emotion for me, and I think that for most people it would. At least I hope it would.

[ChowChi-Ching]

Actually - if the moderators want to delete this they can -

I do not want people to argue over this and I do not want people to misunderstand my feelings on this subject either. I have a strong pride for the country I live in and while I love to see other peoples pride for the countries they are from, I do not like seeing the American Flag taken down to be replaced. Now I would not have thought twice had both flags been hanging - I see it all the time, I see it with Canadian flags, Mexican flags, as well as other countries and even state flags, but it does bother me to see this countries flags taken down.

I am sorry if I offended anyone.

[Photo-John]

Let's keep it on topic, folks. That means stick to the critique and leave your politics out of it. ChowChi-Ching has some more leeway because she posted the photo and wants a critique, based on how well she expressed her feelings in the photo. But the rest of us need to try and stay on track. You can talk about the effectiveness of the photo to convey the photographer's message. But please, let's leave the politics out of our critiques. This is a photography site and politics can be very divisive. We don't want to let them spoil what we have here.

Thanks-

[danic]

For what it's worth, I hope the mods leave the thread alone. Photo's are used to create an emotional response and this photo (intentionally or not) created one.

[Kajuah]

I agree with danic, and I hope Chow doesn't take offense to my review of her photo, because my heat is with her opinions of that photo, not her as a person. Tiananamen square's famous photo of the student and the tank inflicted conflicting emotions in the west and in the east; a well taken photo does this on its own, without words to create meanings. I think I see that here, but the scene is a bit busy and if the meaning was more isolated; a crop taken on the photo to show the flags as the central point of focus for the picture - then it would be more of a moving message.

Whether I agree or not with it has not much to do with the matter, but .. I always try to be as honest as possible, and sometimes my honesty is seen as too blunt or abrasive. I apologize for that, I grew up with a lot of stress put on me by my family of what free rights meant, how valuable they are and how discrimination is an ignorant religion dead people practised in WW2 and vietnam.

My apologies for lashing out, but I do hate your opinions chow I'll hate them till I die, but not you.

[Photo-John]

I don't think this photo is that effective in conveying the feeling you've expressed. I had to read your post and then look twice before I understood. Shooting tighter on the flags might have helped. But for me, this is really missing context. It absolutely needed your description for me to understand what the photo was of. Even if you shot it tighter, I'm not sure if it would be able to communicate on a broad level. Sometimes that's just how it goes - especially when it's something very personal like this. I can see this as maybe part of a larger body of work - a story about the area or something. Then it might lend meaning to something larger. But on its own, it's not really working for me. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have taken it, though. Sometimes we just end up taking pictures for ourselves. And also, the process of takig a picture and finding out it doesn't communicate as well as we'd hoped is valuable. Now, the next time something like this presents itself, you can try to see through our eyes and maybe refine the message better.

Thanks for sharing. I hope my critique is useful to you

[Skyman]

I don't think the photo expresses what you see at all. If you look at the roofline there are four anchor points to attach flags to. only one of them has a flag remaining and you can see a fallen flag. I don't think the concept of a fallen flag is conveyed particularly well, especially since two other flags are also missing. Perhaps if you were able to get higher up so as to show the ladders on the roof, there might be some extra meaning, or perhaps if the other flag poles were there flag less the story might be stronger. Perhaps some creative cloning to put them back in is in order? Otherwise all I see is uninteresting framing on a run down motel.

[ChowChi-Ching]

I still do not think I have acurately conveyed my opinions on why I took this shot - But I am not sure I would be able to. I think this is one of those "had to be there" shots to get the full feeling and understanding of what I was trying to get.

I will try harder next time to better capture the image in the context in which I see/feel it.

[DrRoebuck]

Let's keep it on topic, folks. That means stick to the critique and leave your politics out of it. ChowChi-Ching has some more leeway because she posted the photo and wants a critique, based on how well she expressed her feelings in the photo. But the rest of us need to try and stay on track. You can talk about the effectiveness of the photo to convey the photographer's message. But please, let's leave the politics out of our critiques. This is a photography site and politics can be very divisive. We don't want to let them spoil what we have here.

Thanks-

All due respect, Chow Chi-Ching made this political by virtue of the subject matter, her reason for shooting it, and her comments about it.

As for the photo, considering that we know exactly what she was trying to convey with this image, I don't think she does it at all. I would suggest getting in A LOT closer and making the American flag more prominent in the picture. A low angle taken from the left side of the American flag would have put it in perspective, relative to the raised Canadian flag.

[Frog]

I still do not think I have acurately conveyed my opinions on why I took this shot - But I am not sure I would be able to. I think this is one of those "had to be there" shots to get the full feeling and understanding of what I was trying to get.

I will try harder next time to better capture the image in the context in which I see/feel it.

I think your photo has elicitied emotion as is proven by the initial posts.
I don't think it would stand alone without your explanation of where/when/why you took it.

[Photo-John]

I still do not think I have acurately conveyed my opinions on why I took this shot - But I am not sure I would be able to. I think this is one of those "had to be there" shots to get the full feeling and understanding of what I was trying to get.

I will try harder next time to better capture the image in the context in which I see/feel it.

I've been thinking about this one a lot. I think this photo falls under the category - "didn't really see what was there." Seeing what's really in front of you is a hard thing to learn. We have so many symbols and filters in our brain, translating and changing what is actually in front of us and in the viewfinder, into something very different. One of the challenges for a photographer is learning to push aside all the cultural and instinctual noise in our mind so we can see what's really there. Only then can we start to capture and creat great images.

In the case of this photo, I can see why you took it. But it was only after reading your explanation and a couple of looks at the image. The photo didn't hit me in the heart as the scene did you. But I don't think that you really identified the key elements in the image when you took the picture. Those symbols needed to be isolated and distilled in order to share with us the experience and emotion that you had. The obvious thing would have been to shoot tighter. But a different angle might have also helped. And it's possible that what you experienced just couldn't be captured and shared with that scene.

Learn from this. Take it to heart. Next time look closer. Identify what is speaking to you. Focus on that and eliminate the rest. Take lots of photos and experiment with angles, depth-of-field, and anything else you can come up with. Usually, good photos take a lot of work. I don't know how many pictures you took here, but sometimes there are 20 or more photos you don't see, when I post one.

You take criticism well. That's good. Only people who are teachable get better

[ChowChi-Ching]

Thank you, I appreciate your comments and will definitely learn from this. I will really be looking deeper in the photographs that I take and try alot harder to capture my feelings in the images that I take. My reason for posting on here is to get critique, I want to learn all I can. I will take every post on here and learn from them.

Thank You!

[Photo-John]

Thank you, I appreciate your comments and will definitely learn from this. I will really be looking deeper in the photographs that I take and try alot harder to capture my feelings in the images that I take. My reason for posting on here is to get critique, I want to learn all I can. I will take every post on here and learn from them.

Thank You!

Most of the time critiques are about technical stuff. That's the easy part of photography. The technical stuff just makes you a proficient photographer. Learning to understand and identify your own symbols and motives, and learning to truly see are much more difficult. But those are the things that have the potential to make you a really powerful photographer.

[Didache]

I also have thought pretty hard about how you might best get across your feelings and I've concluded that this is one of those areas where a single image might not be enough. Some concepts require a body of work rather than a single picture. In your case, maybe a series of images on how your flag is used/abused, honoured/dishonoured? For instance, I have an acquaintance who came through a very bad and abusive relationship and discovered a certain "healing" through telling the story in photographic images - none of the pictures makes much sense on their own, but taken together they are extremely powerful.

Although I am a Brit, I lived in the US for a time, so I do understand the rather unique place your flag occupies in American affections.

Good luck with it!
Mike

[ChowChi-Ching]

Thank You.... I appreciate your comments. I think that is something I will consider next time, taking a series to tell my story.

[Greg McCary]

The biggest thing to me that hurts the shot is the lack of any detail in the sky. I think maybe a more straight on shot eliminating as much sky as possible or even the use of a filter to tone it down would have helped. I also agree with Gary, the other flag pole holders makes one wonder is there more to the story. Maybe an early morning or late evening shot?