Praying Mantis

[Shebang]

My photo opportunities are very limited, but I drug out the camera and went looking for something to shoot -- anything for some practice. Here's what I found. These pics are straight out of the camera. C&C most welcome.

[Sushigaijin]

Nice light, good shots. Crop them square and call it a day.

[Loupey]

Thanks for posting uncropped images so that we can see how you are composing in-camera.

Both are nice but I have a feeling that there was even more potential there. You had positioned its head dead center in the frame which effectively cut off so much of the mantis and introduced a lot of dead space. Next time, compose the shot with the focal point (head/eyes) off center so as to include more of the body.

In the first, there was a very interesting diagonal going on so I would have shot it in vertical format, and again, with the head near the top of the frame.

In the second, the lighting was very nice and again a vertical format would have been my choice.

[armando_m]

pics are good !

I'll echo what loupey said, would be nice to see more of the body of the insect

focusing and then composing is what I try to do , it can be a problem is the subject is moving ;)

[Shebang]

Thanks to all for your help. (Loupey, I am most familiar with your photo work, which is beautiful.) Question: I have the Canon 40D with the nine-point focusing. I have it set on the center point. Should I change it to one of the outside points to accomplish the off center focusing? Or does it matter as long as you focus the center point, hold shutter button halfway and compose the shot? I am really having trouble with sharp focus and DOF. Thanks again.

[caleb]

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

This link may help for DOF. When you're doing macro you're going to be working with millimeters of in focus areas. Look up focus stacking and macro rails, it may help? One of my lenses chronically front focuses... Meaning that my camera/lens focuses just a little too much in front of the subject so I end up with blurry photos in auto focus mode. Changing your view finder's focus thing (I don't know the real term) might help. I don't know/haven't found another solution, so if someone knows please post! Manual focus and checking the view finder (zoom into the parts that are supposed to be in focus) may help. Although if your subject is living/moving, good luck!

[SmartWombat]

Yes Paula, if the light is bright enough then use the off-centre focus points.
I started out with a 20D and as long as the subject wasn't moving fast (like race cars) and the light was good, then the off-centre focus points were fine.

By the time you aim, half-press, and recompose, there is a good chance your victim will move. Or you will move a little and put the insect out of focus.

Do you use a tripod?
If not, then you might try what I used to do with my Zenit-EM film camera years ago.
Use a couple of flashguns on brackets, fit extension tubes, shut the 135mm lens down to f/16 and adjust the lens to focus at about 18" - then adjust the flash power to work at that distance.
I was younger then, I even chased down butterflies with that setup.
There was no focussing involved, just get to the right distance and shoot.

[Loupey]

Should I change it to one of the outside points to accomplish the off center focusing? Or does it matter as long as you focus the center point, hold shutter button halfway and compose the shot?

If you focus with the center point and recompose, odds are very high that:

1. The focus will no longer be precisely where you want it
2. You may have lost that decisive moment

Don't waste time setting which focus points to use and don't get stuck using your focus points as "compositional points". Switch to manual focus for macro because the DOF is so shallow and you need to control the exact placement of the focus plane (sometimes the DOF won't even extend beyond the eyeball of some subjects). I use manual focus for all my nature work - believe it or not, but it can be much faster because your eye isn't fooled by branches, grass, leaves, and such that you often have to shoot through.

[Shebang]

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

This link may help for DOF.

I checked out this site and am spending time studying it. It seems as though this will be most helpful.

When you're doing macro you're going to be working with millimeters of in focus areas. Look up focus stacking and macro rails, it may help?

I have never heard either of these terms, so I will Google them and see what I discover.

Changing your view finder's focus thing (I don't know the real term) might help. I don't know/haven't found another solution, so if someone knows please post! Manual focus and checking the view finder (zoom into the parts that are supposed to be in focus) may help. Although if your subject is living/moving, good luck!

Perhaps Loupey's post is the answer here. Thank you, Caleb, for your help!

[Shebang]

Do you use a tripod?

I have a Promaster tripod (about $125) that I have used, but still don't get the razor sharp focus. I'm thinking my lack of a great understanding of DOF, etc. is a big part of the problem. Working to remedy that.

...Use a couple of flashguns on brackets, fit extension tubes, shut the 135mm lens down to f/16 and adjust the lens to focus at about 18" - then adjust the flash power to work at that distance.
I was younger then, I even chased down butterflies with that setup.
There was no focussing involved, just get to the right distance and shoot.

I am not so young now myself -- and I don't really understand your process/terms here, and thus my "stupid" questions: Why the flashguns? And what are flashguns -- external flashes with brackets mounted to your camera at the hotshoe? Why extension tubes? I have a Canon EF 180mm 1:3.5 L Ultrasonic Macro lens. How does that lens compare to your 135mm stopped down to f/16? Is my lens adequate? What aperture should I be using? Thanks for your patience and help.

[Shebang]

If you focus with the center point and recompose, odds are very high that:

1. The focus will no longer be precisely where you want it
2. You may have lost that decisive moment

Don't waste time setting which focus points to use and don't get stuck using your focus points as "compositional points". Switch to manual focus for macro because the DOF is so shallow and you need to control the exact placement of the focus plane (sometimes the DOF won't even extend beyond the eyeball of some subjects). I use manual focus for all my nature work - believe it or not, but it can be much faster because your eye isn't fooled by branches, grass, leaves, and such that you often have to shoot through.

Thanks for your help. The autofocus WAS making me crazy because it was locking onto everything but the mantis! Are you saying that you use manual focus for even your non-macro nature work? Sometime back I read your helpful how-to thread. I will go back and read it again.

Thanks again to all. I'll shoot and post again after more study -- and practice.

[SmartWombat]

Ah I didn't have a macro lens, so I used extension tubes behind the lens.
Your "L" lens is more than adequate.
Mine was the cheapest second-hand lens I could get.

Flashguns because many butterflies I was after were in woodland, where it's pretty dark for photography at ISO 64.
The flash provided enough light to allow me to stop down all the way to f/16, that's the main reason. Also the flash would freeze any movement. As a side benefit I got consistent exposure without metering - if it was in focus it was properly exposed

My camera didn't have TTL metering, it was just a selenium cell on the front of the camera and a needle to indicate exposure based on shutter speed and ISO. Not wonderfully accurate.
So a few test shots to get the exposure, and I was all set.

Today's lenses would probably stop down to f/22. Though the extra length of the extension tubes would change the effective aperture, adding about 1 1/2 stops I think, I didn't calculate it (I did for the 18" extension tube) and relied on experiment.

Stopping down the lens as far as possible gives the maximum depth of field, which gets the largest amount of the insect in focus.

Oh and the hotshoe? I wish! There was only an external sync socket, no hotshoe. I had the flashes wired to the camera through a splitter.

[Shebang]

So, as I knew from day one, I have more camera than I am photographer! That's okay -- it's not likely I will ever outgrow this camera, which was the point of my purchase, however, I do hope to learn enough to capitalize on what I have. Thanks for your help in accomplishing this. Now off to shoot something "mechanical" for the November photography project.

[Loupey]

Yes, your 180mm macro is more than sufficient. In fact, it is probably one of the best on the market for macro work (for field work).

Frankly, I never have trusted AF. I tried it couple times with important shots and blew the shot because the AF hunted. So for all my important work I still use manual focus. But I'm trying to rebuild my trust in AF so I've been forcing myself to use only AF for shooting dogs. But for me, manual focus gets it done.

[Shebang]

Yes, your 180mm macro is more than sufficient. In fact, it is probably one of the best on the market for macro work (for field work)...

Well, the posts by SmartWombat and you are both encouraging and discouraging all at the same time! I studied long and hard before buying what I did because I had to get as much in the way of lens and camera as I could with the money I had (or didn't have!). So, it's encouraging that those efforts paid off.

A while back I posted, then got somewhat discouraged and quit, and now am at it again. I really appreciate you accomplished photographers spending your time helping me and other newbies. Your critiques and advice to us are invaluable -- books are good, but they can't replace a willing and able person.

One more question: Why did you add the parenthetical "(for field work)"? Would that be versus studio work or something?

[Loupey]

One more question: Why did you add the parenthetical "(for field work)"? Would that be versus studio work or something?

True macro lenses typically achieve life-size (1:1) without any attachments. All these lenses (usually available in focal lengths of 50mm, 60mm, 100mm, 105mm, 180mm) achieve the same magnification but at varying distances and angle of views. For field work, one usually wants as much distance to the subject as possible so that 1) the subject isn't frightened away, 2) room for implementing reflectors, strobes, branches, etc. is maximized, and 3) the light fall-off from using strobes is minimized. These all point to using the longest focal length possible for field work. I use 300mm and 500mm lenses with either extension tubes or teleconverters to achieve macro shots if necessary.

The resulting benefits of shooting long from afar is that your angle of view is narrower so you will have less distracting foregrounds & backgrounds and generally a more pleasant bokeh.

[Shebang]

Thanks, again.

[SmartWombat]

With your lens, it'll probably be the inside of a wristwatch

[CLKunst]

Hi Paula!

I just wanted to say, that all technical stuff aside, the only real issue with these pictures is compositional - which ultimately comes down to experience. Luckily that is free and easy to acquire! I think it is safe to say that if you continue working on your photography and posting in the critique forum, in a year you won't believe how much your work and skills have grown.

Keep participating in critiques, keep asking yourself what do I like about it, rather than 'I wonder what everyone else sees in this?'. Browse the galleries here and just look, when you see something that stops you in your tracks ask yourself why it works for you. Look for ways you can apply that to your own technique.

It's always my pleasure to watch new members who had "more camera than skills" develop into really great photographers through practice and critique! Looking forward to watching you grow.

Remember it's not the song - it's the singer!!!
:thumbsup:

[Shebang]

SmartWombat: LOL -- if I can get it focused!


CLKunst: Thanks for your tips and encouragement. I have spent hours and hours looking at the work of you accomplished photographers and reading the various forums for knowledge -- maybe I should be out shooting! I'm finding that photography develops more than just camera skills -- like patience and tenacity!