Love For Sale

[draymorton]

Shot the other night at a CD release party. Thanks for any feedback.

[draymorton]

Wow... 50 views and no feedback. Is the image really just that inoperable?

I can lighten her (or parts of her) if that helps, but I wanted to keep it dark and moody.

I needed to send this person the image and wanted feedback on what (if anything) I can do to make it better - or if i just shouldn't send it at all - which is why I asked for your thoughts. Thanks either way.

[GB1]

Dray - Yeah, a lot of views and zip comments is unfortunately becoming the norm here. I suspect there's a number of non-account people taking a look.

This is a cool shot! I love her framed against the neon (?) sign. The black works great.

Two things that bother me here though: one is her eyes are closed (not too big a deal), and the other is that her left hand isn't sharp. The DOF wasn't quite deep enough, though I understand the need to use a wide aperture in such low-light situations. Another quibble is that left left arm isn't illuminated like her face and right arm, but this doesn't bother me as much. You say you can (convincingly) adjust the lighting?

Nice framing. Can't see how I would have done anything differently with that.

G

[Adamo]

The strange thing, is I never saw this post until you responded to it. Unfortunately, I don't have much of a critique. I wouldn't change a thing. I like it the way it is, and think she will too. I think a case can be made to lighten her up a bit, but I personally wouldn't. What will she use it for?

[OldClicker]

Unless she knows the word and it means something to her, I would square it up with a crop just right of the 'u' making it more about her and less about 'um'. Also, maybe half the black off the top.

The brightness looks OK to me and my monitor is darker than most.

Terry

[wfooshee]

The word may be the club name, and might be meaningful for context. I guess the lighting is a spotlight?

My only problem with it is that dark arm. Maybe a different image without the mute, so her arm is in a normal position?

[draymorton]

Thanks for the feedback, all. Really appreciate it, as I feel I kind of have to send something to her, but I don't want to make an ass of myself.

Out-of-focus arm, yeah. It's really tough with an 85mm at 2.8 (or even 4) when you're pretty close to the action.

The dark arm - everyone I've shown this to has mentioned that as being a shortcoming. Luckily, the original is plenty bright, so I'll see if I can lighten up that arm (and the trumpet).

The light was a lot more plentiful in the original (spotlight yes, but a million other lights as well, mostly bluish and reddish). I darkened everything for mood and to create the appearance of a lone spot on her face.

I agree about the crop, but the sign is significant. The Iridium is a big deal for an up-and-coming artist. I may go with that crop, though.

Eyes closed and mute, to me, go together to create a certain mood. She's really feeling it. But I'll look for another image with her arm in the usual position.

Adamo - I doubt she's going to use it for anything. lol It's just an introduction to my work (a first impression and, therefore, fairly important).

I'll post an edit with as many improvements as I can make. Thanks again!

[armando_m]

Dray,
Good job with such low light

I agree that cropping in more around her should be good

as others mentioned , just saw this come up on the list of new posts

[jetrim]

Looks awesome Dray, I think the arm is fine.

[draymorton]

Thanks armando and jet. I'm going to post an edit with arm lighter for comparison.

The other thing I was wondering: is the hand in back okay or should it go? It does add depth and context - and a bass headstock might look funny without it. On the other hand (pun not intended)...

[Adamo]

Dray, the hand doesn't bother me, But if you are going to lighten her arm, go ahead and remove the hand and lets see what it looks like.

[jetrim]

Dray, I tried this out. If you clone the last leg of the U you can get rid of the bass entirely and it makes the sign more understandable. I used "screen" blend mode with a wide feathered selection to lighten the arm and it does help, but in a small jpg you get some weird artifacts on the bottom of the arm.

[mattb]

I like it. I think most of the other comments are right on, but overall I think it's a good image and nothing to hide from the musician, that's for sure.
I think in a composition like this where the person is facing a certain direction, it looks better is they are facing into the frame rather than out of it. A tighter crop would help there and the sign although incomplete would probably still be identifiable.

[gahspidy]

I would say overall its ok. I'm not crazy bout the expression, but its not a big negative imo. I love the framing and the neon sign behind her is a huge plus in the shot, somehow. The arm is dark, and for me thats not a problem but I do find the purple tint on it a bit distracting.

I had a go of it and actually like this in B&W with the Neutral density preset in PS.

[draymorton]

Thanks for the feedback. Tried to adjust certain things. Lightened and changed color of the arm, slimmed it down, lightened her face, added light from the right so the purple shadows make more sense.

Adamo - tried removing the hand and the bass neck/headstock looked weird without it. If I end up leaving the bass/hand in, I think I may just darken the hand it a bit.

Jet - thanks for working on it. So you mean clone the last leg of the u and put it over the i? I'll give that a try and see how it looks. It may clean things up.

Matt - thanks. I haven't played with the crop yet, but I agree with you. The next thing I'm going to try is to crop into the right side of the sign and add to the canvas on the left.

Gary - wow, interesting. Well, I got rid of the purple in the arm. Why doesn't the facial expression work? What should it be to make it more acceptable?

Thanks for the b/w tip. It looks strange to me on that setting, though. The sign is way too bright and distracts from the subject. Increasing the red/decreasing the yellow helps a little.

[gahspidy]

Nice work on the arm, def an improvement. Its not that the facial expression doesn't work, its quite fine really. For me somehow the eyes look like you caught a moment that was on the edge of being an "awkward in-between facial expression" and one of a pure and passionate moment. It's not bad but rather on the fine line of being acceptable. So, I think it is ok.

Yeah, the b&w ND preset blows the sign out (which I kinda like actually as it has a very abstract and artsy shape) but I like what it does to the subject.

As for the original crop with the player facing out of the frame, I have seen a lot of that lately in publications and pro portfolios and seems to be a trend or something. I didn't mind and thought it worked well, but the last crop edit presented has a nice overall balance to it. Looks good

[Adamo]

I agree, I like the update, especially the added space on the left. Seems much more balanced. I think she will be happy with either one really! Great work, as usual!

[draymorton]

Thanks both. Glad the extra space works better.

Adam - totally agree, more balanced now somehow.

Gary - okay, I get it now. And I do see what you mean. As for b/w, I'll try messing with it some more. I def see potential there.

Here's another edit. I didn't like the mouth on the orig, so I went ahead and comped in a new mouth, which I actually think might work better - just something about it. But maybe it's me. Let me know what you think.

[wfooshee]

A musician would know that the mouth treatment is wrong, and that the mouthpiece is too small.

They might not catch it, though. I looked at the original post for 30 minutes before I saw the bass-player's hand.....

[draymorton]

A musician would know that the mouth treatment is wrong, and that the mouthpiece is too small.

Hmmm... interesting. How is the mouth wrong? Because the shape doesn't correspond with the finger positions, etc.? In a strictly cosmetic way?

Mouthpiece - that's really weird, as it's the mouthpiece that was actually attached to the trumpet.

They might not catch it, though. I looked at the original post for 30 minutes before I saw the bass-player's hand.....

Ha! Good. I thought I'd just leave it in there.

[draymorton]

Was trying to get a tiny bit more definition/detail in the mouth/lips and probably went a little overboard. I think I understood what was meant about the mouth position in the last edit (the mouth piece *was* smaller, too). Is this one any better?

[wfooshee]

The edited mouth shape looks like a more powerful blow, like for more volume or a higher note, and probably not appropriate for playing with a mute. I think going back to the original helps.

How's that for being confusing?

That last one works well, with her arm more visible.

[draymorton]

Not confusing at all! Thanks, wfooshee. I ran these by a trombonist friend, too, who had the same criticisms of the third edit. He knew right away that the mouth was wrong.

Anyway, sent the last one off. Fingers crossed.

[GB1]

I like the additional negative space here. It shows off the nice contrast between the jet black and the neon sign (and her).

[lemonade]

really great photo with hardly any visible noise and with a vibrant impression almost as if I could listen to the musician.