Katie 2

[timwaters77]

And what about this? Is it too much wall? Should I have brought her to the front more?

[armando_m]

Seems like she is placed at 1/3 of the frame but has 2/3 behind her,
I would have done the other way around , leave 1/3 behind her, 2/3 in front

The exposure is right for her skin, I'll try to reduce the brightness and increase contrast on everything else

[ksbryan0]

I will take the opposite viewpoint on her position relative to the wall, but agree with Armando on the PP suggestions. I think she needs to be closer to the camera, as the near wall doesn't do anything for me and the brightness is distracting. With her dressed in relatively light colored clothing, I think the result would have been better with a dark background instead.

[timwaters77]

Thanks guys. Does this work better as a portrait then?

[ksbryan0]

I like this composition better, but her OOF eye and her expression need some help.

[LeeIs]

yeah your crop makes it stronger.

[GB1]

Hmm. The 'correct' amount of negative space is always tough, and somewhat subjective. I think the second works better as a portrait but I do like the original too. The images seem to have a yellow cast. Try removing that, and also try a black and white (desaturated) version.

G

[timwaters77]

yeah, I will work on the yellow. I shot this in RAW and set the "shade" white balance after but didn't mess with it any further.

[Asmarlak]

I fixed it as much as I could.

[AgingEyes]

Is it too much wall?

No.

Should I have brought her to the front more?

No.

[AgingEyes]

I fixed it as much as I could.

And her face looks dirty, literally.

[timwaters77]

Asmarlak, can you share what you did there? I am in the learning process on this software editing bit.

[Asmarlak]

Asmarlak, can you share what you did there? I am in the learning process on this software editing bit.

I was afraid I'd be asked this question although it's a valid question from someone in the learning process. Anyone who uses Photoshop won't be able to tell you exactly/step by step how to transform a whole image but they can tell you how to do one or two specific things. The transformation of an image takes tens if not hundreds of clicks by trying to do different things and see what works better. It is very difficult to go back in history and remember exactly what was done. Even if I was able to, what I say would apply only to this image because every image is dealt with differently.
I use Photoshop Elements in all my post processing, no other software involved. The only advise is to learn Photoshop and get to know which tool does what, so when you open an image for the first time and get an idea on what needs to be done, you'll know how to execute it.

[AgingEyes]

Anyone who uses Photoshop won't be able to tell how exactly/step by step how to transform a whole image but they can tell you how to do one or two specific things.

And one specific thing here and another specific thing there add up to the whole process of transforming the image from the beginning to the end.

I would disagree to the statement that "Anyone who uses Photoshop won't be able to tell how exactly/step by step how to transform a whole image." You may not remember how much specifically you moved the sliders in Level, for example, but you should be able to tell what steps and tools you used to work on the images to get to the final results. Otherwise, there would not be books, magazines and videos out there teaching people how to use Photoshop on their images, and people have been able to learn from them.

Even if I was able to, what I say would apply only to this image because every image is dealt with differently.

And I think timwaters77 was asking about your work on this particular image. You adjusted it, you have the obligation to tell timewaters77 what you did. After all, it is not your image. You owe him.

[gahspidy]

Tim, I also feel the first posted image is a bit awkward compositionally and would be better having the model stand closer to you with most of the wall going out of frame.

The second crop is very nice with a good feeling of balance. I agree that her expression is somehwere "in between" in that it sort of looks like she did not know what to feel at that moment.

I think it can benefit from some mild sharpening. I do like the soft warm/yellow color cast here. It has a soft pleasing pastel look that goes with her hair and clothing.

You can try an "auto color" correction in PS if you wanted to alter that. It usually does a fair job at correcting color balance issues. there are other methods you will learn with more experience.

Asmarlak, unless someone has specifically noted in their signature that editing their images is ok, its always best to ask.

I agree with AE....

[Asmarlak]

And one specific thing here and another specific thing there add up to the whole process of transforming the image from the beginning to the end.

I would disagree to the statement that "Anyone who uses Photoshop won't be able to tell how exactly/step by step how to transform a whole image." You may not remember how much specifically you moved the sliders in Level, for example, but you should be able to tell what steps and tools you used to work on the images to get to the final results. Otherwise, there would not be books, magazines and videos out there teaching people how to use Photoshop on their images, and people have been able to learn from them.

And I think timwaters77 was asking about your work on this particular image. You adjusted it, you have the obligation to tell timewaters77 what you did. After all, it is not your image. You owe him.

Well, I'm not a magazine, nor a video, nor a book, and most definitely not a teacher. I owe him the inspiration not the teaching. As the matter in fact no one here owes anyone anything. I showed him how could his image become to inspire him. Why would anyone take up one hour of his/her time to memorize and write down step by step instructions?. This is the "Critique" forum not the "Learning" forum.
On the other hand, by explaining what to do to transform an image is to possibly go through every single tool and feature in Photoshop, I'd rather write a book and make money, lol.
We come here to see and read about new ideas that inspire us. If someone's intention is a step by step learning then a school would be the way to go.

There is no way of knowing in which stage everyone learning is in.

Here is an example:
1. Select the hair.

Answer: Could you please tell me where is the selection tool?, I think there are too many of them.
OR
I don't know why when I select the hair, the face gets selected too, what should I do?.
Not to mention the kind of software everyone uses.

One more important thing, You have to base your own judgment on everything you do in every step of the way. It is not about move the curser to 5 or 10. You can move it to 30 and like how it looks more than when I liked it at 10. That's why two or more people could process the same image but comes out very differently with each one because it's all about using your personal judgment constantly rather than a curser movement.

GARY, I know you do. I thought you know those things already, how mistakenly I was. Now, unfortunately I have to put you with AgingEyes in the same category, lol.

Get real guys.

[Asmarlak]

Asmarlak, unless someone has specifically noted in their signature that editing their images is ok, its always best to ask.

I agree with AE....

Gary, to simply tell a beginner remove the yellow, add contrast, sharpen, ...etc. is often unimaginable because they are beginners, don't have enough experience, and unable to imagine how the image would look like when they do what asked. To have someone actually do it to set them an example is an advantage for them and the frosting on the cake. So, whoever put you in charge, don't take that away from them. On the other hand to ask him/her on top of that to sit down and write a step by step instructions - that's simply too much to ask. You are not going to provide that either so snap out of it man.

[wilsan]

Hi Tim this is a very personal opinion and as I always said there are not definitive rules on photography. That been said for my taste I believe the the first one is a better photo than the second one.

I will increase the crop a little bit on the first one but the negative space fit perfect between color, pose and expression. on the first one you capture a very soft and charming moment the DOF is good and make her stand out of the infinity. I will work a little bit on those High Lights on the shirt but nothing that a little burn can not fix.

Why I believe that the first photo is better than the second?
Well on the second her expression is not the best.
Half of the face and one eye are on focus the other side don't and because is so close in the portrait you can notice the different. Her mouth and lips expression are kind of odd.
One eye open the other one kind of sleep.

On the first photo you have an expression and composition that it make the subject look prettier. The second one does not make so much justice to her natural beauty.

Hope that this comments could help you on your next shootings.

[gahspidy]

Asmarlak, I'm simply agreeing with Aging Eyes in that there IS something you can tell about what you did in editing. We don't know exactly what Tim's skill level is but since you took it upon yourself to edit, and then he specifically asked what you did it would not be too much to simply say you adjusted the curves, or the levels or used auto color adjustment,or combination of all of the above, etc. To simply brush him off and say its pointless to try to explain to a beginner is not cool.

Yes, the few times that I have edited others photos, after asking and/or seeing that they say its ok in their signatures, I go over the basic steps I have taken to achieve the results. I don't know if its enough to help them with it, but if I'm going to go through the process of editing someone elses photo with the intent to help, I believe I also need to back it up with an explanation of my proceedure. No one here was attacking you, so there should be no need for you to lash out.

Anyhow Asmarlak, I believe your making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The reason Tim started this thread was to receive constructive criticism and feedback so that he may improve , as is the reason why any of us post here.

[gahspidy]

Hi Tim this is a very personal opinion and as I always said there are not definitive rules on photography. That been said for my taste I believe the the first one is a better photo than the second one.

I will increase the crop a little bit on the first one but the negative space fit perfect between color, pose and expression. on the first one you capture a very soft and charming moment the DOF is good and make her stand out of the infinity. I will work a little bit on those High Lights on the shirt but nothing that a little burn can not fix.

Why I believe that the first photo is better than the second?
Well on the second her expression is not the best.
Half of the face and one eye are on focus the other side don't and because is so close in the portrait you can notice the different. Her mouth and lips expression are kind of odd.
One eye open the other one kind of sleep.

On the first photo you have an expression and composition that it make the subject look prettier. The second one does not make so much justice to her natural beauty.

Hope that this comments could help you on your next shootings.

Tim, I agree with wilsan in that the first photo would be worth cropping tighter, possibly even as tight as the second. I'm not sure if the image could take such a crop as it looks a bit on the soft side (not sharp focus) but its worth a try. The expression of her first image is certainly better than the second.

[Asmarlak]

Anyhow Asmarlak, I believe your making a mountain out of a mole hill here. The reason Tim started this thread was to receive constructive criticism and feedback so that he may improve , as is the reason why any of us post here.

I suggest you go back and read who made a mountain out of a mole hill me or AgingNose. I have been doing photo processing for at least 20 years, an image that could take an average person a whole day work could take me only 10-15 minutes that is how I did this one. I did tens of steps that I don't remember what, that's why I can do it but I cannot teach it.

[gahspidy]

C'mon, Asmarlak..... the name calling is ridiculous.
Let's ALL stick to addressing the photos posted in Tim's thread here and nothing else.

Thanks

[AgingEyes]

[snip] I can do it but I cannot teach it.

See? It wasn't that difficult, was it, saying that you cannot teach? At least we could think you were being honest. Many can't teach either. Instead, you simply acted like a...you-know-what.

[n8]

So, unfortunately, this thread has gone from "hey, can I get some constructive criticism," to a bs, unnecessary argument based on...what really? It seems pretty cut and dry that if I edit a photo that is not mine and re-post it, I had better be prepared to let the owner know what I did.

Asmarlak: You stated in a thread a while back "I am not here to learn, I'm here to teach," but you now state that you cannot teach. What exactly was your purpose then? Inspiration? I'm fairly certain that whenever you engage in the arguments that you seem to have a history of initiating, all you inspire is disdain. In another current thread, you quite passive aggressively insult the nature of the photographs posted here...all of which are done so in order for the poster to learn an improve. Again...what are you contributing, and what have you provided that makes you a qualified critic? You don't post here, but you criticize here. Ever read PJ's sticky? I'm sure you will respond in accordance with your typical closed minded defense...I will not entertain it. I'm pretty sure I speak on behalf of our peers.

Gary: Forgive my rant please. This forum has allowed me to personally grow as a photographer, and I have a low tolerance for anyone that intentionally or unintentionally disrupts an environment of learning and betterment.

On with the show.

I took a stab at it, and here is what I did.
1. crop
2. duplicate original layer, change duplicate to luminosity, apply unsharp mask at 80% (radius 1.2).
3. masked out all facial skin, but left eyes, lips, edge of nose, etc...large details
4. duplicate layer again (select NORMAL for new layer style)
5. use sponge tool to desaturate wall at 40% opacity (we'll take care of that yellow wall a different way)
6. copy that layer (delete the mask on this one that carried over from when you sharpened).
7. apply Gaussian blur (2.0 px in this case)
8. add mask and use a brush big enough to just get just the gal but with feathering at 100%

Not saying it's a great one, but that's what I would do to it, and that's how I would do it without using plug-ins. IQ isn't the best, but that's to be expected after cropping off a chunk.

[Asmarlak]

If everything stopped at my response #13, it would have ended there.

n8 - no wonder you listed instructions, nothing to be proud of, your processing is terrible. You use sponge?, this is not a kitchen counter lol. You shouldn't be doing this kind of demanding post processing.

Your idea of step by step instructions is something that would apply to the image as a whole but this is not the case. I separate the image into sections by slection: hair, face, background, skirt (yellow), skirt (green), chest, arms, ...etc. every section is dealt with differently.

Teaching does not necessarily has to involve an online step by step instructions (this is not the place for it anyway) but can be in many other ways including visualization of the outcome to show how the result could looks like, just like when you buy your child illustrated children books to help their imagination grow. Beginners don't have enough imagination yet to visualize what you tell them to do.