Fire People: Take 2

[CLKunst]

Here's the next set of pics for consideration. These are all the same person on different evenings. Which, if any of these, work for you, and why. Thanks!!

Comments and critiques welcomed, suggestions cheerfully explored but please leave the editing to me.
:thumbsup:

#1

#2

#3

#4

#5

[gahspidy]

I'm not feeling that any of these are working for me, except possibly the last two. It seems that these are difficult to get a balance between exposure of the fire and any hint or detail in the people twirling. Have you tried using flash? It seems to me that if you were to expose for the fire, you could keep the exposure set at one setting in manual and then hit all the images with some fill flash as well. thi smight give you exposure for both the flames and the persons. you would not need much flash, just enough to bring out some detail in the people whlie maintaining good exposure in the flames.

[CLKunst]

Good point and part of my concern for these. I did use an off camera flash for fill on #5 but I have major problems getting the white balance correct. WB Corrections turn the flames unnatural colors and leaving them as found gives a cool tint that doesn't seem to go along with the heat of the display. I haven't quite figured out how to strike a balance between the two.

#2, 3 & 4 are meant to have an extreme abstract quality to them, but they either work or they don't.

And of course at the end of the day, it's not my show, it's theirs - so the amount of equipment and intrusion I can bring to these events is minimal, meaning I can't direct and there's no chance to re-shoot. I'm going to contact my friend and see if I could arrange for a more purposeful private shoot with a few of the group's dancers.

[gahspidy]

I see your concerns. Actually, the fill of the person in #5 is pretty good, even perhaps too much for the mood. The problem i think with the temperature in the WB is that the overal exposure of the flames was too great and turned them bright white as opposed to the orange color they should have. Try keeping the WB set for flash, this will help ensure a warmer tone and also provide a consistency in WB temp rather than using AWB which will have every shot a slightly different temp.. The fire will always expose at about the same setting, so set up a few shots initially to get the exposure and then leave it in manual, adjusting the fill flash compensation as you go. If shooting RAW, you can alwaysadjust the overall temperature later to your liking. A yellow diffuser over your flash head can also help ensure a warmer temp.

[CLKunst]

A yellow diffuser over your flash head can also help ensure a warmer temp.

Excellent suggestion!! [Smacks forehead.] Now why didn't I think of that? I even have one I could have taped on, it wasn't with me at the time but, sheesh! That's right on the money! Thanks Gary!:thumbsup:

I think I will still have to have a private session with them at my next opportunity. I am dearly afraid of blinding someone who's not ready for it with a flash burst, even a small one, and then they make a mistake and crash! Somebody catches a flaming hula hoop to the [insert favorite body part to be burned here].

[gahspidy]

Great, hope it helps. btw, i think with the flames that are passing in front of their faces in the dark of night that your fill flash is not going to be quite as surprising or blinding as you may think.
good luck

[CLKunst]

Another great point! So glad I put these out there! Thanks again Gary!

[MB1]

#1 doesn't work for me because there aren't enough flames. I do like that she seems to be having fun.

I sort of like the shape of the flames in #2 but I like flames in #3 better and I like the three arm shapes in #3.

I want to like #4 because of the elongated body position and the location of the fire circle but the image as a whole is a little murky and the flames are overexposed with soft edges.

#5 is my favorite here. You can catch a hint of her face and expression, the flame edges are sharp and the background is interesting. The color is off a bit but doesn't bother me. I'd crop this one from the top to about the flame circle to get her out of the center of the frame and to change the balance a little bit.

[readingr]

CL,

Hmmm! I read the comments and I agree with what Gary's says about the use of flash and the filter. I would have the flash set to a -3 power setting for the canon EX so just fill in and the camera set to a 6500K as the initial setting for WB. Then play around from there.

As for crit on the photos here goes

#1 - not enough happening for me
#2 Love the abstract and the almost writing in the flames and the fact that the person must have stood still then moved. Really like this one it has a dynamism.
#3 not enough of the person in this one for me.
#4 Needs some colour boost to warm it all up and get the red poping
#5 lovely shot as is - have you tried to add a warming filter in PS to see if it makes it pop a bit more?

Roger

[AgingEyes]

Are you sure the flash in shot 5 was not the main source of light? I think if the exposure was based on ambient light and flash as fill, things wouldn't look that "white". Flame should appear yellow and not white/bluish like now and everything would still have a yellow cast on them. It seems to me the exposure was too shot for the ambient light to get in.

Of course I could be way off the mark here.

[CLKunst]

More great response! Thanks so much for the terrific input!

Roger - I took your suggestion and tried to pop #4, take a look. I decided that murky is the perfect adjective to describe the background so I've taken it down to shadows as it seemed the background was distracting from the form.



Happily, I just went back to the original files to check a question Aging Eyes suggested and discovered that I shot these RAW so my WB problem is going to be much easier to solve than I had originally feared. Most of these pictures are a year or more old and it's taken me that long to sit down and really give them some careful thought.

Aging Eyes - I went back to the original file to check my white balance information, I shot this with a custom white balance I had set for the scene, which explains the blue tint from the flash and the white flames. Since I shot it RAW I went back and reset the WB for flash with very different results. What do you think?

[AgingEyes]

[snip]

Happily, I just went back to the original files to check a question Aging Eyes suggested and discovered that I shot these RAW so my WB problem is going to be much easier to solve than I had originally feared. [snip]

Aging Eyes - I went back to the original file to check my white balance information, I shot this with a custom white balance I had set for the scene, which explains the blue tint from the flash and the white flames. Since I shot it RAW I went back and reset the WB for flash with very different results. What do you think?

Much better, CL, just like what one would see at the scene.

[SmartWombat]

I did use an off camera flash for fill on #5 but I have major problems getting the white balance correct.

Simple solution, get some lighting gel and tape it to the front of your flash.
A theatrical supply store would have many different colour lighting gels.

I have somewhere a sample book (3" x 1" gels) that is only a fraction too small to fit on the front of my 580EX flash (but it my old Olympus flash) which I took gels out of and sellotaped to the flash for effects.

[CLKunst]

Thanks Aging Eyes, I appreciate you taking the second look.

Wombat - I have a beautiful little flip sleeve book of plastic flash tints that I inherited from an old room mate when he moved on. I've held on to it for years and occasionally used them as lens filters but never on the flash head. They are about the exact size and would probably tape on quite neatly. I think it's time that little book made it's way back into my bag for my next adventure with my fire dancing group. Thanks for looking.

[gahspidy]

Cindy, I thought you might be interested in this bit of an article I found. It gives a bit of insight to using flash for shooting Fire Dancers.
http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-f...jectbackground

Look under the section about Slow Shutter Sync and there is a link to some shots of the Fire Dancers with the flash technique.

[CLKunst]

Thanks Gary! Good article. I have a few in the folder yet to come out that I did some experimenting in that vein. I will post a few soon. I attended a live critique at the Torpedo Factory over the weekend in their photography gallery. I got some great advice on rescuing the details from the flames [literally. ]as well as some interesting suggestions for the project in general. I re-worked a few and am happy with the effort so far.

[gahspidy]

Great! I like all of these with the first and last one my favs. I'm looking forward to alot more of these

[readingr]

Cindy,

I really like the last lot, as with Gary the middle is the weakest.

Yes the red pops much better so the edited pair are much better.

Sorry for not responding earlier. work and family has been getting in the way.

Roger

[gahspidy]

Great! I like all of these with the first and last one my favs. I'm looking forward to alot more of these

Actually, I really like that third one alot as well. the second one is the weakest, but still very good.