Bird ( revised )

[OneWorldOneLens]

Thanks for the advice to previous comments, however I sort of twisted the original thread.



Hows that?

Still not sure what im doing wrong. It has no "sharpness"
F - 3.5
S- 15
manual focus
WB- 4000k
Flash on, room lighting is poop.

[Shebang]

I like the color waayyy better than the B&W. Such a beautiful bird! Probably light is your biggest problem -- as you say, you're still getting a soft image (I'm struggling with it, too.) Can you add some room light or go with a higher ISO so you can get a faster shutter speed? What camera and lens are you using?

[OneWorldOneLens]

I like the color waayyy better than the B&W. Such a beautiful bird! Probably light is your biggest problem -- as you say, you're still getting a soft image (I'm struggling with it, too.) Can you add some room light or go with a higher ISO so you can get a faster shutter speed? What camera and lens are you using?

That shot was taken with my Olympus E-420
Used Zuiko 14-42 mm lens.

I got the color to turn out a lot better than before, however like you said the subject is coming out "soft" (hehehe still learning these terms, forgive me )

I have a lamp in another room that I will move and take some more in a few mins.

Hahah yes, I work that fast.... what of it? Today has been basically 80 pictures... let battery charge.... 80 more.... let battery charge.... 80 more... lol.

I want to start taking "good" sharp pictures so that when I meet this girl again I have something to impress her with ;)

Thanks for all the constructive help!
OWOL

[Shebang]

Looking forward to your next effort with the lamp and a faster shutter speed.

[OneWorldOneLens]

Looking forward to your next effort with the lamp and a faster shutter speed.

Im very pleased with this new shot. Yes, did some PP... but I have come to accept that until I get a chance to take a photography class at school, I am not going to get those "quality shots that I am after"

let me know what you think



OWOL

[w.slayman]

Much better, love the colors, now we can see how beautiful he is. Keep working it will come,

And about impressing a girl, be careful of what you wish for. :lol:

[EOSThree]

Beautiful colors. Be careful of your background, the second shot while sharper loses something because his beak is blending into the background.

The first shot is losing sharpness due to camera shake or subject movement or both. 1/15 is just too slow of a shutter speed to handhold well. The old rule of thumb for SS is 1/focal length of the lens you are using.

With the modern cameras with crop factored in you have to take the crop into account also, for your oly this is 2x so your 14-42 is effectively 28-84. The slowest SS I would use is 1/30 for the short end and 1/100 or so for the long end. Your mileage may vary.

A DSLR doesn't apply a lot of processing to a shot, it leaves the majority of the processing up to you. This is a good thing, because you can process to get the image you are looking for, rather than what the camera thinks you are looking for.

Finally, although an improvement from the first shot to the second shot, neither are overly sharp, and this could be due to some or all of the factors I mentioned.

If you are just getting used to the aspects of photography, a good book that will teach you all of the basics of photography is Understanding Exposure by Bryan F. Peterson. It's photo 101.

[OneWorldOneLens]

Beautiful colors. Be careful of your background, the second shot while sharper loses something because his beak is blending into the background.

The first shot is losing sharpness due to camera shake or subject movement or both. 1/15 is just too slow of a shutter speed to handhold well. The old rule of thumb for SS is 1/focal length of the lens you are using.

With the modern cameras with crop factored in you have to take the crop into account also, for your oly this is 2x so your 14-42 is effectively 28-84. The slowest SS I would use is 1/30 for the short end and 1/100 or so for the long end. Your mileage may vary.

A DSLR doesn't apply a lot of processing to a shot, it leaves the majority of the processing up to you. This is a good thing, because you can process to get the image you are looking for, rather than what the camera thinks you are looking for.

Finally, although an improvement from the first shot to the second shot, neither are overly sharp, and this could be due to some or all of the factors I mentioned.

If you are just getting used to the aspects of photography, a good book that will teach you all of the basics of photography is Understanding Exposure by Bryan F. Peterson. It's photo 101.

Thank you for the comments, every time I read I learn something new. .

So with the crop factor, I guess you are saying that when I shoot with SS 15 or so then its really about 30? Not sure if I am understanding. But if thats true, then shooting at about SS 25-30 should give me some more sharpness?

What I have noticed, the faster the SS the darker the shot is coming out, and If I bump the ISO from 400 - 800 then I start getting a lot of grain. So I think I should be doing something with aperture? correct?

But thank you about the beak tip, I agree that it needs to be corrected. And I will see if my local used book store has a copy of that book, sounds like I could really benefit from giving it a read.

Happy Holidays,
OWOL

[OneWorldOneLens]

Ok!

So what I did was tape some sheets of printing paper together and stuck them in as a background behind a plant. Then put bird on plant

SS got bumped to 30
ISO 400
WB 4500 k

Took two different shots



Did not crop it so perfectly, but more importantly the colors and such



Which one is better?

Also Noticed that with the white background, auto focus became nearly instant... yay ingenuity. But silly mistake, found that with the focus on AF it was set to center focus not frame.... soo there is some blur, but will be corrected soon.

OWOL

[Frog]

Thank you for the comments, every time I read I learn something new. .

So with the crop factor, I guess you are saying that when I shoot with SS 15 or so then its really about 30? Not sure if I am understanding. But if thats true, then shooting at about SS 25-30 should give me some more sharpness?

What I have noticed, the faster the SS the darker the shot is coming out, and If I bump the ISO from 400 - 800 then I start getting a lot of grain. So I think I should be doing something with aperture? correct?

But thank you about the beak tip, I agree that it needs to be corrected. And I will see if my local used book store has a copy of that book, sounds like I could really benefit from giving it a read.

Happy Holidays,
OWOL

In my humble opinion, 1/30th is too slow SS. In this situation 1/60th might be iffy unless the bird doesn't move much. The reason your faster shutter speeds come out darker is because the shutter is not open as long, thus less light hits the sensor. Stops the motion blur but less light. The way to compensate is to use a wider aperture. Can't read your exif data and not sure what the widest aperture your lens has but I'd go with f/1.8 for a shot like this and f/2.8 at the smallest. Note the smaller the number the wider the aperture.

[EOSThree]

Thank you for the comments, every time I read I learn something new. .

So with the crop factor, I guess you are saying that when I shoot with SS 15 or so then its really about 30? Not sure if I am understanding. But if thats true, then shooting at about SS 25-30 should give me some more sharpness?

What I have noticed, the faster the SS the darker the shot is coming out, and If I bump the ISO from 400 - 800 then I start getting a lot of grain. So I think I should be doing something with aperture? correct?

But thank you about the beak tip, I agree that it needs to be corrected. And I will see if my local used book store has a copy of that book, sounds like I could really benefit from giving it a read.

Happy Holidays,
OWOL

No, when you are shooting at SS of 15(which is 1/15th of a second)that's exactly what you are shooting at. Modern DSLRs have a sensor that is smaller than the frame of 35mm film that the bodies and lenses are based on. Because of the smaller size of the "film" the focal length of the lens when compared to a 35mm camera has a multiplier factored in. This number really means nothing except when you compare things to 35mm film cameras. The rule of thumb, 1/focal length, comes from 35mm film cameras. So you have to factor in the crop of the smaller sensor when using this rule.

So, what I am saying is, the effective focal length of your lens is 28mm. This should be the number you use for minimum shutter speed. So about 1/30 is the slowest shutter speed to use using this rule of thumb. This rule of thumb also requires good technique and a nearly static subject. If your technique is poor, or your subject is moving with any speed, then a faster shutter speed will need to be used.

Yes, the controls are interrelated faster shutter speed equals less light to the sensor if aperture remains the same. So to compensate for the faster shutter, a wider aperture is needed. Understanding Exposure explains the relationships between SS AV and ISO.

[Shebang]

Thanks, EOS, for your explanation -- OWOL is not the only one reading here to learn!

[OneWorldOneLens]

No, when you are shooting at SS of 15(which is 1/15th of a second)that's exactly what you are shooting at. Modern DSLRs have a sensor that is smaller than the frame of 35mm film that the bodies and lenses are based on. Because of the smaller size of the "film" the focal length of the lens when compared to a 35mm camera has a multiplier factored in. This number really means nothing except when you compare things to 35mm film cameras. The rule of thumb, 1/focal length, comes from 35mm film cameras. So you have to factor in the crop of the smaller sensor when using this rule.

So, what I am saying is, the effective focal length of your lens is 28mm. This should be the number you use for minimum shutter speed. So about 1/30 is the slowest shutter speed to use using this rule of thumb. This rule of thumb also requires good technique and a nearly static subject. If your technique is poor, or your subject is moving with any speed, then a faster shutter speed will need to be used.

Yes, the controls are interrelated faster shutter speed equals less light to the sensor if aperture remains the same. So to compensate for the faster shutter, a wider aperture is needed. Understanding Exposure explains the relationships between SS AV and ISO.

I get it now! yay! hehehe,
I sat here fiddling with the 14-42 mm and kept asking myself "damn you lens... go lower than AV 5.0!" but it rebuked me. So I swapped out a new lens 40-150 mm and it went to AV 4.0

Frog... your killing me man, I have no clue how I am supposed to get it that low.

Im going to bump up the ISO and see how that works out, hopefully not that grainy If I use it at around 500-600. 400 is just refusing to turn out nice.

Will Attach some photos within the next half hour.

Thanks for all the advice! its starting to pay off.
OWOL

[OneWorldOneLens]

I get it now! yay! hehehe,
I sat here fiddling with the 14-42 mm and kept asking myself "damn you lens... go lower than AV 5.0!" but it rebuked me. So I swapped out a new lens 40-150 mm and it went to AV 4.0

Frog... your killing me man, I have no clue how I am supposed to get it that low.

Im going to bump up the ISO and see how that works out, hopefully not that grainy If I use it at around 500-600. 400 is just refusing to turn out nice.

Will Attach some photos within the next half hour.

Thanks for all the advice! its starting to pay off.
OWOL

OK!

AV - 4.0 ( as good as it can get with available lens )
SS - 60
WB - auto
ISO - 800 ( will not let me customize it. Stupid Camera. )

But in the end after some comp work. I like it. Everyones advice is obviously paying off... when ya look at say the first shot in this thread. So thank you.

For your consideration.



OWOL

[AgingEyes]

That is not a real bird, is it?

If not, have you considered using a tripod? Because if that is a stuffed bird, you have all the time to need to photo it.

On my monitor, your last photos is too bright, too contrast. The historgram shows a large part of both ends of the histogram are clipped, meaning you have the darkest shadow areas with pure black with no details, and large area of white with no details. The bird does not look in-focus, the colors too vibrant.

You said you were usng ISO 800 because the camera did not let you customize it. Is this your camera: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse420/page2.asp

I think it says it has manual exposure mode. Have you tried that?

Anyhow, overall, it appears to me, as presented, it is an out-of-focus and over-exposed photograph.

If it is not a real bird, I would suggest you use a tripod or put your camera on some support (other than yourself), take your time to focus, lower the ISO, adjust the power of your flash if you use one, or move whatever lights farther from the subject, and take the photograph.

[OneWorldOneLens]

That is not a real bird, is it?

If not, have you considered using a tripod? Because if that is a stuffed bird, you have all the time to need to photo it.

On my monitor, your last photos is too bright, too contrast. The historgram shows a large part of both ends of the histogram are clipped, meaning you have the darkest shadow areas with pure black with no details, and large area of white with no details. The bird does not look in-focus, the colors too vibrant.

You said you were usng ISO 800 because the camera did not let you customize it. Is this your camera: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympuse420/page2.asp

I think it says it has manual exposure mode. Have you tried that?

Anyhow, overall, it appears to me, as presented, it is an out-of-focus and over-exposed photograph.

If it is not a real bird, I would suggest you use a tripod or put your camera on some support (other than yourself), take your time to focus, lower the ISO, adjust the power of your flash if you use one, or move whatever lights farther from the subject, and take the photograph.

Manual exposure, I have really no clue that that is. Lol ive only taken the camera off AUTO since... last week? and I still have loads to learn.


hahahah, He is very real friend
he is also very mad at having the flash go off on him maybe 100 times today. lol.
True about the focus. Its has beserk on the camera, mostly because it focuses and he jumps when the flash goes off. The exposure... mainly my over the top editing lol.
I will take a few tomorrow and try some more

thanks.
OWOL

[OneWorldOneLens]

Manual exposure, I have really no clue that that is. Lol ive only taken the camera off AUTO since... last week? and I still have loads to learn.


hahahah, He is very real friend
he is also very mad at having the flash go off on him maybe 100 times today. lol.
True about the focus. Its has beserk on the camera, mostly because it focuses and he jumps when the flash goes off. The exposure... mainly my over the top editing lol.
I will take a few tomorrow and try some more

thanks.
OWOL

Question... is RAW or JPEG going to give me better image quality? what ive noticed going back and reviewing my work. On the camera screen itself, the shots look sharp. When I upload them into "olympus master" they get distorted and I have to use the sharpness correction tool... to get some of what was originally there... might there be a solution?

This one has a lot less editing, went for more natural than some vibrant bird that does not exist


which is better? this or the previous? tomorrow I will practice with a smaller aperture value.... hopefully that can fix the focus issues that have been popping up.

60 SS
800 ISO
seems to shoot bright, so if I use a smaller aperture ( aka bigger number right? ) Maybe I will get more of the sharpness I have been craving. Comments on this theory? its crackpot I know. ;)

OWOL

[AgingEyes]

he is also very mad at having the flash go off on him maybe 100 times today. lol.

You may find it funny, but apparently you are stressing the bird. And you should stop photographing the bird that way.

I'd suggest you go read the manual of your camera to get yourself more familiar with your it. Because all the photographs you've posted so far show you have technical issues that you should deal with first, if you want to improve your photography.