Another Snow Photo

[PhoebeG]

Early snow here has yielded some photo opportunities. I've cropped this and sharpened it, and I'm not sure if I like it or not. Something wrong seeing the green with snow?

Phil G.

[whoehei02]

wow...looks so beautiful

[Photo-John]

Phoebe-
Nothing wrong with mixing the green with snow. I think that's a great subject for a photo. Whenever there's early or late snow here in Utah, I rush out to get photos of flowers with snow on them.

I like the scene and the general composition here. The problem I'm having is with the contrast. The shadow where the water falling is too dark, and the snow is blown out. Is this a scanned print? Because if that's the case, then it's just a matter of getting a better scan. But if it's digital, then we need to help you get a better image from your camera. The general rule is shoot dark to hold highlight (snow) detail, and then lighten up the shadows in post-processing. If that's too technical for you, let me know and I'll explain it better.

Hope that's helpful. Thanks for sharing

[PhoebeG]

John,

Very helpful, This is digital. I've been shooting on the light side thinking it was easier to darken, or add more contrast.

Another question; I usually unsharp mask my images, but it seems like if I do it before I scale the image down for posting, it actually appears less sharp. Does that make sens?

Thanks,

Phil G.

[Stefan Dedalus]

This photo makes me shiver. It reminds me of all the times I got a soaker in the winter as a kid. But it is a good shot.

[PhoebeG]

Stefan,

What's a "soaker"?

Phil G.

[shootme]

Phil G., watch out with the unsharp mask, I've used it a few times and it can over sharpen easily. It's usefulness also depends on the actual subject of shot. Here you have water flowing where you might want to have softer edges as I don't think your speed was fast enough to catch the action and probably not slow enough to smooth things out, so unsharp mask can complicate this. I don't know what f stop you used but I probably would have used something safe like between f9-f11, that would help (I think) with ensuring sharpness. Only an opinion, nice shot anyway, good luck, Cheers, S

[GB1]

Phil - I agree that the contrast is way too much.

Regarding sharpening, have several comments to make:

- Resizing will almost always make an image less sharp and possible distort it too. You shold resharpen it after resampling (changing the size). Better yet, don't sharpen the original, just the final product(s).

- You need to sharpen an image more if you intend to print it rather than only view.

- PS' one-click sharpen tool is S***.. dont use it, it over sharpens 75% of the time. The Unsharp mask is actually the way to go, but it is complicated to use: I will post more on this later (have some great info in a book at home).

G

[caleb]

GB, can you pm or cross link or post info in this thread? I'd really appreciate it

[PhoebeG]

Wow, I can't beleive the wealth of knowledge here.

GB1 Thanks, I look forward to the unsahrp mask tips.

Phil G.

[shootme]

G, I look forward to see the info you have on unsharpmask as well. Phil G. out of interest did you use a tripod or handheld for this, where there is detail to see always good to use a tripod? Did I say the composition was nice? S

[GB1]

Ok, you guys owe me one. I had to hand type this from the book . A very short and sweet technical explanation.

I also put in on my website under the Photography->Notes section...


From Total Digital Photography, 2006, by Chris George. I'd highly recommend this book - excellent handbook, very readable.

One of the ironies of digital imaging is that every digital camera and scanner deliberately blurs the image as it is captured. (See * below.) They do this to avoid interference patterns which might be created by the grid-like way in which pixels are arranged: then, to correct for the degradation in image sharpness, these devices offer settings that electronically resharpen the image.

Whenever possible, though, it is best to shoot and manipulate digital images in the softened, unsharpened state. There are two reasons for this. First, different images require different amounts of sharpening, party due to subject matter, and partly depending on how they are going to be used. Second, the sharpening process produces side-effects, such as glowing edges, that can be made much more visible by manipulation. For these reasons, sharpening is something that is done as the last step in the manipulation process before the file is saved.

Photoshop and similar programs provide a number of one-step sharpening filters but these are generally crude, and are less than ideal solutions for many images. The sharpening tool of choice is the curiously named Unsharp Mask (or USM), which is also found in the Filter menu.

The Unsharp Mask gets its name from an old trick used in the printing industry in which an image plate was made to look sharper when printed by sandwiching it with a defocused negative plate of the same image. The software version of this trick offers three variables that control the degree that the image is sharpened. Unfortunately, as one can counteract the effect of the other, it is less than intuitive to work out where each should be set.

The key is to look carefully at the important parts of the image by dragging the magnified preview to telltale areas in turn, to check the effect. You want the main focal points of the image to appear sharp, without degrading image quality; however, you must also check other areas of the image; out-of-focus areas can look strange when over-sharpened (the effect can be applied selectively if there is no compromise solution. See ** below). Also bear in mind that more sharpening is needed if images are to be printed, than if they are simply to be displayed on screen. (I found this out the hard way - GB).


USM Controls

Amount

This is the easiest of the controls to understand, offering values from 1-500%: the higher the amount, or strength, the more the image is sharpened. A typical starting point for this is 100%, with average final values being 50-200%.

Radius

Sharpening is applied to edges of elements in the image, and this control defines how far either side of a found edge the effect is applied. The higher the value, the greater the sharpening effect; but this also increases overall contrast. A typical starting value is around two pixels, with typical final values being 1-10 pixels (the actual amounts will also depend on the size of the image; the more pixels the higher this setting will need to be).

Threshold

This defines what counts as an edge within the image - the higher the value, the greater the difference is needed between two areas before an edge is sharpened. Confusingly, therefore, the lower the figure set for the threshold (or clipping amount), the greater the sharpening effect. Increasing the threshold can be a good way of avoiding film grain and digital noise being sharpened. A typical starting value is around five levels, with end values usually being in the range 1-15.


Other hints

Shots with only minor detail need only a small amount of sharpening.

Images with bright highlights look especially bad if over-sharpened.


* In addition to individual red, green and blue filters, there is a set of filters that covers the whole sensor area. The most significant of these is the low-pass or anti-aliasing filter. One of its jobs is to help minimize the interference pattern created when using the sensor to photograph fine, grid-like detail, such as in the weave of a silk skirt. Perversely, this filter actually softens the image slightly, which is the main reason why digital images usually need to be sharpened electronically, either by the camera or in post-production. (I think the Nikon D200 has a setting in its menus to automatically sharpen your images, which I never understood why this would be needed until reading this. But like he says, different shots need different amounts of sharpening, so best to sharpen them individually in post-processing. - GB)

** Basically says that you can make one area of an image look sharper by blurring its surroundings. This can be done in PS by making a copy of the area, say a background, blur it, then erase the areas on the new layer you want to remain sharp.

[natgaines]

Phil, I can't really add to the critique as my only statement would have been the darkness. I love the snow with green. Can't wait to head to the snow and start snapping as well!

GB1-Thanks for the comments in this thread! It's always so helpful to have others look at your pictures but to get explanations like this is so helpful for an amateur! I'll be copying and pasting this info for future reference, very helpful stuff!!!

[PhoebeG]

GB1 - Thanks. I have copied it and saved.

Shootme - No tripod on this, but I'm thinking I need to go back to it (used to always use it). Lot's of shots seem soft.

Phil G.

[OldClicker]

GB1, Thank you. - TF

[gahspidy]

Scenes like this are tough because there is not a whole lot you can do to make it very eye-catching aside from waiting for the ideal lighting which would help this alot.
I like the composition. If you shot this in RAW, which is always a good idea then you have alot to work with in getting the exposure for the snow and the shadows right. While the snow is slightly blown out, it is not bad and should easliy be saved if this were a RAW file. Same goes with the dark areas behind the water. I do like the strong contrast though.
I think though that you really have to come back and catch this in a better light, say late afternoon or early morning where there may be shadows thrown from a low sun. The only real problem I see here is it looks flat, which happens on an overcast day with very flat and even light.
You have some great help here already. This is not a bad shot right now as it is, and can be tweaked a bit to make even better, but ultimately waiting for the right lighting will always bring the better result.

[Pink Dragonfly]

I looked at this thread as we just had our first snow this weekend and I was looking for useful hints...and I was not disappointed! What an extra bonus provided by GB1

GB1, thank you so much for posting the info on USM, I too shall be copying it for future reference I've just acquired PS this weekend, and your post has come as a God send, as sharpening is what I sat up until 4am last night looking into....

Mette