posting pix of kids in a public park (California)

[pweb]

This subject has been touched on before in previous threads, but this is a new one for me, so I'd like to be clear on it before I do the wrong thing. I'm in California, in case state law differs from federal law.

Is it legal (or ethical) to post pictures of young kids playing in a public park?

I was practicing with my new camera and decided to try something new--kids playing. I asked the parents of one of them if it was OK to take some pictures and they said OK. However, I didn't mention posting the pictures and I didn't get permission in writing.

Thanks.

[Photo-John]

It's my understanding that it's legal. Ethical? That's your call. Personally, I don't have a problem with it. Generally, any activity that happens in a public place is fair game. Laws do vary from community to community. But I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. The only reason I can think of that you'd run into trouble would be if you tried to use a photo with a recognizable face to sell a product. That could get you sued. I'm not even going to mention pornography because I know that's not an issue.

Hope that helps - post away!

[Ronnoco]

I agree with John on this one. Public place is fair game, with the exception of advertising a product.

Ronnoco

[pweb]

Thank you both! Good to know that it's OK.

[Photo-John]

Thank you both! Good to know that it's OK.

Do keep in mind that people are nervous right now about people taking pictures of their kids. So it is possible that someone could challenge you or even call the police. You aren't doing anything wrong. But that doesn't mean people won't be suspicious. So try not to look suspicious and be prepared to explain yourself.

[photo-mom]

thanks, photo-john - yo momma (photo-mom (whose friend pweb is . . .))

[Ronnoco]

Yes, sometimes the challenge is to be almost part of the background when you are taking photos. It is also useful to have your business card handy, if you have one or to make sure that you do have them to legitimize your activity to anyone who is suspicious.

Ronnoco

[Photo-John]

Yes, sometimes the challenge is to be almost part of the background when you are taking photos. It is also useful to have your business card handy, if you have one or to make sure that you do have them to legitimize your activity to anyone who is suspicious.

The business card is a great idea. I doubt that pweb has one. But she could have some made. I'm sure that would make most nervous parents feel better.

[rbarlow]

My first post

The 9th Curcuit has already ruled on this, anyone/thing can be captued while on public property. However posting of a child without the permission of the parent is not very wise.

-rb

[adina]

Here's the thing. Would you want some stranger taking photos of your kids and posting them online where ever they feel like it? I know I don't.

Even though you asked permission, I would REALLY hesitate to post anything where the child is recognizable. Just because it's not against the law, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. If you specifically asked the parent about posting, and they are fine with it, then go ahead. But I always make certain I specifically mention to the parents what I do with them. Am I over paranoid? Maybe, but better safe than sorry.

I have a model release that I use, and mention to the parents that it's specifically for my website, and if I'm going to do anything else (postcards, business cards, display) I call or email and mention it to them before I print. That way they know, and can say something before I shell out the $ if they are uncomfortable with it.

[Ronnoco]

Even though you asked permission, I would REALLY hesitate to post anything where the child is recognizable. .

The point is that many children look very similar at certain ages. I notice that some of the 'highlights of your life' photos posted here are very similar to other photos of boys or girls from the same time period that I have seen, even including the clothes.

Unless in your photo, you have located your shot to a particular park or location and the child has some unique look and your shot is dated, then the child is not likely recognizable at all. In regard to dating of shots, by the way, I have met a child that I taught 6 months before and only recognized the voice.

Ronnoco

[adina]

Any parent is going to recognize a photo of thier child. And if you posted it (or did whatever you did with it) and didn't mention it to them, they may not be comfortable with it. And while it may not be against the law, people talk. I guess it depends on what you are doing with it, what your market is, what your reputation is. For me, I have a very specific market, and am not willing to loose that over someone griping to everyone they know about what I did with thier photos.

In my opinion, I would never do it without mentioning to mom or dad. I don't make a big deal of it, and everyone signs a form saying they have no problem with the photos being used on my site, or for cards or something similar. For me, so much of what I do is based on word of mouth and my reputation. For me, it doesn't make sense to risk that over something as silly as a photo online. But this is in my specific case, doesn't apply to everyone.

And I can spot a child I've photographed 2 yrs ago from 50 paces.

[Ronnoco]

Any parent is going to recognize a photo of thier child. And if you posted it (or did whatever you did with it) and didn't mention it to them, they may not be comfortable with it. And while it may not be against the law, people talk. I guess it depends on what you are doing with it, what your market is, what your reputation is. For me, I have a very specific market, and am not willing to loose that over someone griping to everyone they know about what I did with thier photos.

In my opinion, I would never do it without mentioning to mom or dad. I don't make a big deal of it, and everyone signs a form saying they have no problem with the photos being used on my site, or for cards or something similar. For me, so much of what I do is based on word of mouth and my reputation. For me, it doesn't make sense to risk that over something as silly as a photo online. But this is in my specific case, doesn't apply to everyone.

And I can spot a child I've photographed 2 yrs ago from 50 paces.

I have photographed children in educational situations that have appeared in national newspapers with no problems, without releases. You are correct though, that for some uses such as advertising, I would definitely get permission and releases.

Ronnoco

[Greg McCary]

I am a parent of a two year old and also have a grandson that is four. I know that I would not want someone posting pictures of my kids on the internet without my approval. You may be within your rights as a photographer, but I think there is an ethical side too.
The world is a lot meaner than it was years ago and there are to many bad people in it. I can understand someone taking pictures for a newspaper at a parade or ballgame, there is a diifferance between a local paper and the world wide web, papers are here today and trash the next. The internet is not. I feel many preditors surf the web, even from prison, not local papers. I would also worry if I saw some stranger taking pictures at a park of kids, that was with no kids. I always watch people closely when I am at the park with my children. I actually had someone follow me around in Chattanooga once. It was scary to say the least. Think carefully before you post a picture. Someones life you don't even know could be at stake. The odds may be high but if something were to happen you can't go back in time and change it. IMHO..... Greg
PS. If you want to see something scary, do a web search for registered sex offenders in your area. We have about 78 listed in our area, our population is around 100,000. It's nice to know where they live as well...

[Ronnoco]

I am a parent of a two year old and also have a grandson that is four. I know that I would not want someone posting pictures of my kids on the internet without my approval. You may be within your rights as a photographer, but I think there is an ethical side too.
The world is a lot meaner than it was years ago and there are to many bad people in it. I can understand someone taking pictures for a newspaper at a parade or ballgame, there is a diifferance between a local paper and the world wide web, papers are here today and trash the next. The internet is not. I feel many preditors surf the web, even from prison, not local papers. I would also worry if I saw some stranger taking pictures at a park of kids, that was with no kids. I always watch people closely when I am at the park with my children. I actually had someone follow me around in Chattanooga once. It was scary to say the least. Think carefully before you post a picture. Someones life you don't even know could be at stake. The odds may be high but if something were to happen you can't go back in time and change it. IMHO..... Greg
PS. If you want to see something scary, do a web search for registered sex offenders in your area. We have about 78 listed in our area, our population is around 100,000. It's nice to know where they live as well...

There is certainly an ethical side, but there is also a little too much paranoia related to posting of young peoples photos on the Internet as well.

I can certainly see a potential problem with posting pix of children in a park on the Internet, such that the location of the park and the children are easily identifiable. However there are a lot of good quality, appropriate pix of thousands of children on the Internet in school and other activities that have not been the source or subject of any problems with predators. Why should generalized photos of children in park activities be any different?

Ronnoco

[Greg McCary]

I do agree that there is to much paranoia. I guess because I work for the local school system that I worry. We almost had a abduction earlier in the year, at one of our schools. Someone pulled up and was looking for a specific child at a specific time and location. If it was not for the right people being on their toes at a confusing time of day, someone might be missing now.
If you have a purpose for your generic pictures that's fine and I understand. But to post them in a forum with no real purpose is yet another. I thought about e-mailing the administrators of this forum when I first started posting with concerns, that maybe pictues of minors should be deleted after a set time, 48 hours or so. If someone takes a picture of my child at a ballgame, parade or vacation spot in a crowd of people. I can understand that, but not a specific picture from a specific spot and without my permission. At a park, you are then putting a child in a specific location where they are likely to return. Parks have bad reputations for being hangouts for preditors. My wife was attacked in a park as a teenager. Am I being paranoid or just safe.
Besides Ronnoco, not all photogaphers are going to have your wisdom when it comes down to it...

[adina]

There is certainly an ethical side, but there is also a little too much paranoia related to posting of young peoples photos on the Internet as well.

Ronnoco

When it's your own child there is never too much paranoia. Just like you never stop worrying.

[Ronnoco]

When it's your own child there is never too much paranoia. Just like you never stop worrying.

When my children were younger and there was any worry whatsoever, I sent them out with our oversized standard schnauzer. She (the dog) could handle any situation, and she was a natural guard dog, but very safe and friendly around other young children. I knew for certain that any potential predator approaching my children was very much the one in serious danger.

Ronnoco

[Greg McCary]

WAS. I would hope that a dog as good as this would still be around. Your children were lucky....
Greg

[adina]

When my children were younger and there was any worry whatsoever, I sent them out with our oversized standard schnauzer. She (the dog) could handle any situation, and she was a natural guard dog, but very safe and friendly around other young children. I knew for certain that any potential predator approaching my children was very much the one is serious danger.

Ronnoco

I can remember when I was little riding my bike the five miles into town with just my brothers. We were, I think, 9, 7, and 5. We'd just hop on our bikes, ride to town and play at the school playground and then ride home. When we were a little older, and moved back to Milwaukee, I remember walking from my grandma's apartment to the Downer theater with my older brother, by ourselves. We were maybe 9 and 11. It was probably about 10-15 blocks away.

Would I let my kids do either of those things at these ages. Nope. Is that overly paranoid, nope, common sense. Unfortunately, the times they are a changin. Maybe it's just time to get a big dog....

[Greg McCary]

Where are all of these mean people coming from? How is our country producing so many them? Even our schools are not safe. We will soon have armed guards at them all?
Greg

[Ronnoco]

WAS. I would hope that a dog as good as this would still be around. Your children were lucky....
Greg

Unfortunately, she finally died of old age, but now my children are bigger and so is my new dog. I now have an airedale.

Ronnoco

[Greg McCary]

I always thought that it was amazing how a dogs life span was about as long as it took for your kids to grow up. Almost like God meant for it to be that way.