Opinion on Sports Facility and Photo Exclusive

[PappyDC]

Here is an idea for a photo business/operation. Just an idea or concept.

I may have an opportunity to invest in a sports facility that will cater to youth sports. The idea is 4-6 basketball courts as well as volleyball and indoor soccer. The other investors have tossed around the idea of having an onsite photo operation for events and any other photo need or selling opportunity. Custom stuff as well as team photos too. (I imagine)

As I'm the guy with the "camera knowledge" I'm getting first shot at maybe putting something together. BTW, I'm really an amateur in every way... The others have mentioned "exclusives" as in "no other pro's can come in and shoot/provide services without "our" permission.....I would rather provide the "best service" for the client (parents, etc) than try and box out the competition.

What do other facilities do? I don't want to be the camera police...but...

Another idea of mine would be to wire the facility with strobes to make the best environment for photos...
Any ideas? Comments? Is this a goofy idea or what? This is also my first post here!

[Photo-John]

Sounds like it might be a good opportunity. As much as I hate to do this kind of thing myself, you should do some market research. Find out what kinds of photo products are being sold in your area and what people are paying for them. Assuming it's mostly youth team sports, find out what parents are paying for prints and packages. Then figure out what you might reasonably be able to make and if it's worth your effort.

There are three types of photography happening at sports events like you're taliking about. One is new photography - if there's a tournament or something, newspaper photographers might show up. Another is snapshot photos by friends and family. And then there's what you'll be doing. It's called "retail photography." Essentially, that's the business of selling prints to even participants. It's not uncommon to have a contract for exclusive rights to retail photography for an event or location. And that's what you'd want to do. You don't want to exclude news photographers or ban parent's cameras. But you don't want other photographers trying to come in and shoot the same events and take your business.

How are your sports photo skills? Do you know what you're doing? It's harder than you think. The learning curve can be steep. If you aren't sure you can do a good job, you'd better either start practicing or pass it on to someone who can do a good job. You wouldn't want to make a commitment and then not be able to deliver.

The idea of putting strobes in the rafters is great. That's what the pro basketball and hockey photographers do for college and pro games.

Welcome to the site. Hope my advice helps. Like I said, sounds like a great opportunity. If you think you can deliver and make some money, you should jump on it. Be prepared to work hard, though.

[JSPhoto]

Photo John covered it pretty well, and having been in the photo retail biz before it's a royal pain. To do it right you have to give them what they want when they want it...right then and there. The instant gratification is the best sale. If I had to do it all over again I'd do the following.

1: Have a camera that is setup to transmit images directly to a computer and have a couple or three computers parents could look at the photos at halftime or immediately following the game(s) (this takes care of the immediate gratification customer and your biggest sales)
2: have some pretty women selling the photos from a specific location, easy access for customers. In my case it would have had to be a trailer set up with printers for the vartious sizes of available prints. Make sure you trust the sales people, they are curteous etc. They represent you, not the other way around!
3: For special order items - get paid up front, no "I'll pay you when I get em" or you won't get paid, no matter how nice and sweet mommy or grama are, they will "forget" to pay you.

I wouldn't do something like this without it being an exclusive deal. I would require a ban on parents with cameras unless they are going to have some way of controlling the areas and angles that parents can photograph from. Otherwise you WILL end up with parents trying to get next to you to shoot. If the parents can't get good access then it's OK for them to shoot. Don't worry, 99% of the newspapers will not send a photog, however they may buy photos from YOU. The paper I shoot for most of the time wouldn't, but they also wouldn't send anyone to a facility like that unless absolutely forced to. The very few media types you would get are going to be shooting specific team or individuals.
Make sure any deal you get, you get 85%-100% of the sales, or up prices to reflect the difference.

You don't say what gear you have, but if you used say a Canon 1D with transmitter, a 70-200 USM IS lens as your main lens and a wide angle for team shots, a couple computers, printers etc. you can easily wind up spending $20,000 plus to set it all up, working things right you can make that back in a year or less.

As for strobes in the rafters, maybe, maybe not. If the place has good lighting and is light colored you shouldn't need them. But if it's just a tad off you'd be better with a 580EX flash. If it's really bad then go with the strobes, but figure $500 or more to strobe EACH court.

JS

[Photo-John]

figure $500 or more to strobe EACH court.

That would just be for one light. Then you have to mount each light and you'll need a radio slave receiver on each one. If you have the money, that setup will kick ass. But it's gonna be a big, BIG investment.

[JSPhoto]

That would just be for one light. Then you have to mount each light and you'll need a radio slave receiver on each one. If you have the money, that setup will kick ass. But it's gonna be a big, BIG investment.

You can get cheaper strobes, that was the price I was using... $248

JS

[PappyDC]

Thanks for all the great comments! As a parent of three boys, I have spent my fair share at different sports venues here in Indiana. If I took a poll of other parents as to "needs" in these facilities I'm sure a couple of common things would surface. Something to eat, a decent cup of coffee, a quiet place to sit between games, and maybe an alternative activity for parents and/or siblings.

JSPhoto_ I see you are from McCordsville. Have you ever been to Spiece Fieldhouse up in Ft Wayne? Big place. Lots of courts and "stuff to spend money on".

Another idea is "what if" you had a point of sale kiosk or terminal in the facility where pics could be accessed and purchased 24-7? Anything to speed up the purchase and have it completed on site. How about a CRT display (big screen) with players in a slide show to stir interest. Blow up a great shot/image and call him/her player of the week? .(With a release, to stay legal)....Younger players get a free slushie or whatever with every print...Lots of possibilities!

[JSPhoto]

PappyDC,

I don't get to Ft Wayne too much, mostly to cover the indoor races at the convention center. I did live there many years ago, in fact back when the police went on strike and locked the keys in the cars with the sirens going...remember that?

There are a lot of ways of doing it, the thing is though to price things to make it worth your while. Consider that it costs you say $25,000 to start up, you need to make that back so what are you going to charge for say an 8x10? Consider other costs, people to sell them have to get paid, thats expensive and an ongoing expense. Supplies as well, fuel and of course your time...whats it worth?
You'd have to sell 1667 8x10's at $15 each just to get your $25000 back. It doesn't sound like much but that would take a long time to hit that number. The originality at the start will give lots of sales, and things will look great, then the bottom will fall out as people only want or need so many photos of their kid each season. Rarely will you sell more than two photos of a kid in a season to a parent. Some will buy more, but very few.

JS

[PappyDC]

Great comments!

Big question is how many pics would a family buy? How about if we put junior's image on a T shirt for grandma? A coffee mug for Dad at work? And, we make all that "stuff" available for order at the site? *(Again, point of sale at the facility)


Here are some figures, just for fun..
One of my boys will be playing in a spring basketball league locally. 1st through 8th grade. A total of approximately 960 players.

Here we go: assume half the players would buy a print-

480 x $12.00( size?) = $5760.00

3 prints per year = $17,280.00

This would be simple league play and not tournaments, etc. Also, the same kids are playing , season after season, with younger kids coming on board and older ones leaving. The younger kids are probably a better market too. ( I have more shots of my 10 and 11 year olds than I do my 17 year old teen.)

These quick numbers seem low. I've seen other photographers shooting like crazy at tournaments and now I wonder what return they are getting. I know other parents have said they would buy more pics, if the pics were good. Hmmm.....

[JSPhoto]

From my experiance:

You will sell 1 8x10's to a very small number of people, maybe 1/3 if that high!

Even fewer will by more than 1, and even fewer more than 2.

Gimmicks are nice, but don't expect too much sales wise, they want it now, not next week. You coud do buttons and make those while they wait. Beleive it or not the buttons sell very well, even at $5 a pop.

Keeping track of who ordered what is a pain inthe rear. You need recipts and a way to track who ordered what. It all costs money from the reciepts to the person who takes care of orders.

Every year you will get the same people buying, and a huge group that buys nothing at all. You will also have one or two families that buy a lot.

Sure you can do it, but be prepared for some huge startup expenditures. Just to get started the way your thinking, to do it right you'd need around $75,000. That gets you all your camera gear, lighting, computers, printing equipment, refill supplies and inventory of novelty items. The reallity is you should figure on more like $100,000 to $150,000 so you have the money to pay first year saleries, empoyee taxes,bookkeeper, etc.

Go in with set policies on sales - refunds, returns, and paying for things up front! Make sure suppliers can supply your needs quickly. If you buy cheap gear (photo or printing) you will lose sales!

JS

[masdog]

Since you will have to use computers to process and print the photos, you can also use them to track orders. A good POS tracking system can be put together in Microsoft Access or similar database, and there are off-the-shelf systems that can be purchased if you don't want a customer system.

When people at the event want to buy photos, the person doing the selling just enters all the information into the computer, prints their reciept, and fulfills the order. The added bonus with this is that you can then record the customer's address for marketing purposes later on.