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  1. #1
    Senior Member danic's Avatar
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    New sensor for Pentax?

    Stolen from another site, but it makes interesting news none the less.


    "The mythical large-sensor K3D* 22MP body. But rumour has it as a 1.30x crop bridge-format...with an important twist (or lack of twist, if you will).

    The concept is to finally shake the creative shackles of the 35mm 'full-frame' format legacy which is based around motion-picture film format. In the digital age, it is an anachronism to rely on a physical selection of a landscape or portrait modes.
    The newly coined DFX sensor will be a _square-format_ (23.5 x 23.5mm).

    The width is that of the current Pentax APS-C DX sensor, while the height is that of a full-frame FX sensor. (Hence, the "DFX" bridge designation between DX and FX formats.)

    Because the image-circle of the square DFX format is no larger than that of rectangular DA format, it could allow complete compatibility of Pentax DFX bodies with DA lenses (and of course FA, A, M, K, S lenses).

    The total DFX sensor area is 1.5x larger than APS-C. Based on the same pixel-pitch as the K20D's sensor, the new DFX sensor in the K3D* should field 22 megapixels (21.94MP).

    The standard shooting mode of the K3D* will be with an APS-C sized image crop. The user can change the crop orientation from landscape to portrait _in-camera_. This eliminates the need to rotate the camera to achieve a portrait orientation.

    However, full sensor RAW data will be captured (except for high-speed shooting) from the DFX sensor, no matter which crop is selected in camera. The user then has the full square frame to make the full-latitude of creative decisions later at the editing stage. They can change the crop-orientation, reposition the crop, fix rotation on the crop, or keep the full-square image.
    The user also has the option to shoot square in camera.

    The continuous shooting speed of the K3D* is 3.5 fps in square format. In high-speed shooting mode, the continuous shooting mode increases to 5.5fps, however this mode is only available in crop-format, as the camera only captures the image data in the crop-area.

    While the K3D* body will be taller than the K20D body due to the taller sensor, taller viewfinder and taller rear-LCD, the K3D* will not be bigger than the K20D+vertical grip, and much smaller and lighter than 35mm full-frame cameras.

    Since a vertical grip is no longer desirable or necessary, the elimination of hardware and contact points for a vertical grip simplifies the internal design and frees up space for improved features that are important to photographers:
    - 100% pentaprism viewfinder

    - Vertically articulating 3.2" square-format LCD, high-resolution (530K dots) with SMC anti-glare coating for shooting at all angles indoors or out
    - Improved Live View

    Another benefit of in-camera image orientation is that on-camera flash (either the built-in flash or hotshoe-mounted flash) will always be above the subject. This eliminates unsightly side-shadows or the need for unwieldy off-camera flash-brackets.

    There will be one new flash accessory, a Fresnel lens which fits on the AF540FGZ flash to refocus the flash output from it's current landscape pattern to uniform square-pattern.

    In summary, the new 22MP K3D* will offer the photographer greater creative control than possible, compared to current APS-C offerings, while in a relatively compact and convenient package, compared to current full-frame offerings. In the great Pentax tradition, there is full backwards compatibility with the legacy of Pentax SMC lenses.

    (I would expect the K3D* body-only price to be just under USD2000 which would be very competitive against the D300/5D/E-3 considering the K3D's larger-than-DX sensor and effectively built-in vertical-grip.)"



    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=30983324

    What are your thoughts? It is something Pentax would do, just to be different. Yet I'm not too sure if this is the climate in which new sensor's should be released in.
    Last edited by danic; 02-20-2009 at 11:54 PM. Reason: Inserted link
    danic



    George Zimbel: Digital diahhrea is a disease for which there is a simple cure. Take one frame of a scene. It is exquisite training for your eye and your brain. Try it for a month. Then try it for another month…then try it for another month…..


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  2. #2
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    Wow! :thumbsup:

    I've been hearing of similar rumours on several sites, some say that the new DSLR will have better burst-rate too. Can't wait to see if such camera will actually be announced.

    PENTAX is badly in need of a "groundbreaking" product, canon/nikon with video, Sony A900...

  3. #3
    Captain of the Ship Photo-John's Avatar
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    My first thought is it's probably not a good idea to copy and paste large chunks of text from a another site. I wouldn't be happy if people did that here, although I'm sure they do. The right thing to do is to link to the page on the other site. I'd like to say that we have it all here. But that isn't always the case.

    I haven't seen or heard anything from Pentax about a new sensor. But I think they could sure use something special right now. They have been the most quiet of the manufacturers recently. And they need to do something to get some attention.
    Photo-John

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  4. #4
    Senior Member danic's Avatar
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    Apologies PJ. I've amended my post to reflect this. I think it will be a major coup if they do pull it off. They need something, seeing as they have squashed the K200D already. They only have two DSLR's in their current line-up, the K-m and K20D.
    danic



    George Zimbel: Digital diahhrea is a disease for which there is a simple cure. Take one frame of a scene. It is exquisite training for your eye and your brain. Try it for a month. Then try it for another month…then try it for another month…..


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  5. #5
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    Square makes sense. The lenses aren't oval - why not use more of the area of the glass. To really brake from the 'film' mold, would a round sensor make sense? - TF
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  6. #6
    Nature/Wildlife Forum Co-Moderator Loupey's Avatar
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    I think a square sensor format is a great idea. The ability to crop into either horizontal or vertical (as with square medium format film) would be a huge benefit for me. There doesn't seem to be any drawbacks (aside from the larger files).

    I think this is something other manufacturers would adopt. Even a square 35mm format would be a good idea - especially for wedding photographers I would imagine.
    Please do not edit or repost my images.

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  7. #7
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    This sounds like a lot of fun! Go Pentax!
    Jim R

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  8. #8
    Senior Member OldClicker's Avatar
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldClicker
    Square makes sense. The lenses aren't oval - why not use more of the area of the glass. To really brake from the 'film' mold, would a round sensor make sense? - TF
    Make that 'break'.

    I've never noticed before that I cannot edit on this forum. Timed or something?

    TF
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  9. #9
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldClicker
    Make that 'break'.

    I've never noticed before that I cannot edit on this forum. Timed or something?

    TF
    24 hours and then only forum Mod/s and the Admins can edit.

  10. #10
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    OH no another camera to buy. I am just getting use to the last one.
    Well, you just can't have enough cameras and lenses.
    This square format reminds me of the old Browny

    Where will it ever end?? Rumor has it they developed a 128gig flash memory, good by hard drives
    K10d pentax 50-200 f4-5.6 sigma 100-300 f4 sigma 18-50mm f2.8 ex dc macro Kenko AF 1.5 DG

  11. #11
    Check out our D300 Pro Review! deckcadet's Avatar
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    Okay, I'm going to go out on a limb and call this rumor a fake, or at least a misinterpreted leak. I have outlined the inconsistencies with it as written.
    Quote Originally Posted by danic
    [I][SIZE="2"]
    The concept is to finally shake the creative shackles of the 35mm 'full-frame' format legacy which is based around motion-picture film format.
    The inaccuracy starts here. While the film is the same width as motion picture film, the 35mm 'full frame' format bears little resemblance to most motion picture film. In fact, motion picture film has more in common with the DX/APS-C format than 35mm stills- the recorded area in motion picture film, due to vertically traveling film, results in a very similar dimension to an APS-C frame, with older films using a slightly taller 4:3 aspect ratio.

    rumour has it as a 1.30x crop bridge-format...with an important twist (or lack of twist, if you will). In the digital age, it is an anachronism to rely on a physical selection of a landscape or portrait modes.
    The newly coined DFX sensor will be a _square-format_ (23.5 x 23.5mm).
    I wouldn't call it an anachronism. While it is convenient to choose your composition in post, having a rectangular sensor means that if you have a rectangular composition, with appropriate lens choice you will be able to avoid waste. I also take issue with calling it a '1.30x' crop, as when you look at it, your horizontal field of view retains the 1.5x crop, while your vertical FOV goes to a 1.0x crop. 1.3x crop implies that horizontal AND vertical field of view are larger than APS-C but smaller than 35mm.

    Because the image-circle of the square DFX format is no larger than that of rectangular DA format, it could allow complete compatibility of Pentax DFX bodies with DA lenses (and of course FA, A, M, K, S lenses).
    Really, now? Think about it this way. The lenses have been designed with the rectangular format in mind. If you are trying to design small and light lenses like the Pentax DA's (which, I might add, are often taken by their sister company Tokina and rebadged and set up for use with other cameras), you design your lens around the optimal image circle for the format you're using. This means that the extremes of the 24mm width of the sensor only need to be covered for 16mm in height. If you extend this height by 25% on each side, for a total of 24mm height, you will almost certainly be pushing the boundaries of the image circle, if not flat out exceeding it. Then don't forget the fancy petal lens hoods we all have now. Those are designed with sensor height in mind, too, and block out stray light within very tight tolerances of sensor height, so using a taller sensor would negate their use.
    You can always use full frame lenses, of course. But then you lose the advantage of having an appropriate horizontal field of view for the sensor width.

    The total DFX sensor area is 1.5x larger than APS-C. Based on the same pixel-pitch as the K20D's sensor, the new DFX sensor in the K3D* should field 22 megapixels (21.94MP).
    I'd just like to point out that if the intention is to be cropping to fit your intended composition, whether in camera or in post, it's probably wiser to consider the K20D sensor's resolution as the realized resolution. I know I don't have very many perfectly square shots.

    While the K3D* body will be taller than the K20D body due to the taller sensor, taller viewfinder and taller rear-LCD, the K3D* will not be bigger than the K20D+vertical grip, and much smaller and lighter than 35mm full-frame cameras.
    I doubt the size difference would be that big. Compare a D300 and D700, or a 5DII and 50D. Smaller body due to the smaller prism, but the weights are pretty similar. If you go to an intermediate range, I doubt the difference would be enough to be a selling point.

    Since a vertical grip is no longer desirable or necessary, the elimination of hardware and contact points for a vertical grip simplifies the internal design and frees up space for improved features that are important to photographers:
    What's needed other than a handful of electronic contacts (doesn't take up much room at all) and the tripod socket? I dunno about y'all, but when I use a grip on my cameras, half the time it's for the additional battery storage- a desirable feature, I think.

    - Vertically articulating 3.2" square-format LCD, high-resolution (530K dots) with SMC anti-glare coating for shooting at all angles indoors or out
    This one pretty much has to be off. I've tried every standard resolution I can think of within the display standards that exist (e.g. 320x320, 480x480, 640x640, etc) for this square format display and none of the resolutions x 3dots/pixel works out to 530,000. The closest is 420x420x3... but I don't know of anything outputting at 420px.


    I'm not discounting the idea, nor saying Pentax won't have a camera like this in the future. I just don't think this adds up the way people think.
    (full disclosure: I may be a Nikon shooter, but I happen to also shoot Pentax, though it's just my 6x7 system)
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  12. #12
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    Re: New sensor for Pentax?

    I wonder what kind of photo paper we will use?
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