Noise issues in low light

[Georgeo]

I havn't noticed anyone else discuss noise issues with shots using the oly dslr's, so i thought i'd just ask the question since it is really starting to frustrate me. I've noticed that in the dark areas of my pics, mainly in low light situations, the is quite substantial noise - even when using very low ISO settings and slow shutter speeds. Refer to the below pic, shot at F16, 50sec, ISO 160, (E620 14-42mm kit lens) on a tripod using a remote) shot in raw then post processing using oly studio pro experimented with noise reduction, sharpening, etc (this pic has improved on the original raw file though, but still not good either). Then when cropped as you can see : still a lot of noise.

Am I doing something wrong here? wrong settings? I know that the smaller the sensor on the dslr's the more prone they are to noise, especially at high ISO levels but I didn't think it would be this bad - if this is normal for the four thirds system sensor i am seriously thinking of selling and getting out of the system and might consider a nikon.

I was considering spending some big dollars on the 12-60mm lens, would a better quality lens improve this kind of problem?

[Greg McCary]

Georgeo I have never shot with the 620 to know but I did shoot with the 510 until I upgraded to the E3. With shots like this yes it was a constant battle with noise. It seems you covered all of the bases as far as reducing it. I also never had any luck with Olympus Master. Lightroom has a built in NR that works as good as any NR program I have used. It doesn't eliminate the problem but it is an improvement. As far as a lens upgrade it is going to give you sharper images and much better performance but I think going to the E3 would be a better option than the 12-60mm. But I do suggest upgrading the lens as soon as you can. The 14-54mm would be my choice for the 620. It would save you big bucks over the 12-60mm. The SWD isn't going to help you with the 620. The 14-54mm is about the best bang for your buck.
Longer exposures DOESN"T help. I think a better thing to do here would have been to shoot at f/6.3 or f/4.0 and lowered the shutter speed. F/16 on a shot like this isn't going to get you any greater DOF. You actually could have went lower than even 6.3 but I wouldn't advise shooting wide open. Try and keep your shutter speeds below 30 secs. Best bet would be around 15sec in my book. Googleing around I read the SAT can increase noise too. Be sure and turn that off on exposures like this. Is ISO 160 as low as the 620 can go? If you already have it on a tripod I see no since in not shooting as low an ISO as you can.
One other thing that helps is to nail exposure. If you have to bring up the darks with fill light or bring up the exposure in processing it is going to really add noise and banding as well.

[Georgeo]

Thanks Greg, the ISO on the E620 only goes as low as 100, I only bumped it up a notch it this case to decrease the shutter speed, but like you said I should have opened up the f-stop and dropped the shutter speed, I just wanted all the image to be in focus. I guess I'll just keep messing around till I get there, I'm not sure what you meant about SAT is that the saturation setting?

[OldClicker]

There are a couple techniques that I have read about, but never tried, that might be worth looking into.

First is to take a second shot (same shutter speed) with the lens cap on and then subtract (Photoshop) what you get from the original. I don't know how to 'subtract' in Photoshop but others may chime in. I don't think this technique is for grain noise, but may help.

The second technique is to take multiple short exposures, instead of one long one, and blend them together in PS. The idea is that the sensor never gets hot, which is what causes the noise, with the short exposures. Again, you will have to Google to find the actual PS 'addition' procedure.

If you try these, please let us know how they work.

TF

[Greg McCary]

SAT is the Shadow adustment setting

[Ray Dockrey]

You could also try Noise Ninja or Neat Image. They may be able to reduce the noise down to a level you like. You will lose some detail but it is a give and take situation. I think there are trails of both so you can try before you buy.

[drg]

Expose as close to overexposure as you can. Underexposure with any digital sensor is the first culprit in noise generation.

The 'dark frame' method is now built in to some cameras! It works by only recording the ambient electronic noise of the sensor itself under the same conditions at the time. Sensor temp, rH, age, vibration etc can contribute to the noise generated so it is best to make the dark frame as close in time to the exposure as possible.

Then the dark frame can be 'subtracted' from the original by opening it as a separate layer in Adobe Photoshop or other editing software that supports a similar process. The 'noise' layer can be opened as a Difference layer in almost all versions of PS and then blended with opacity sliders for the best result. There are some complex techniques about inverting the dark slide and blending it with color or linear dodging layers and then using a difference layer from the original dark slide to just mask the noise.

Shooting in RAW and by exploiting post processing will give you the potential for better results!

[Singletracklovr]

I know that the smaller the sensor on the dslr's the more prone they are to noise, especially at high ISO levels but I didn't think it would be this bad - if this is normal for the four thirds system sensor i am seriously thinking of selling and getting out of the system and might consider a nikon.

I wouldn't just dump everything for nikon unless you are willing to go straight to a d300 body. I have a nikon d80 and it's a noise machine in low light and totally useless @ 400iso and up.
Let's face it, dslr chips just aren't what they should be yet.

[Greg McCary]

I wouldn't just dump everything for nikon unless you are willing to go straight to a d300 body. I have a nikon d80 and it's a noise machine in low light and totally useless @ 400iso and up.
Let's face it, dslr chips just aren't what they should be yet.

I am not so sure, back in the old days it was a fight with grain at high iso's. If the camera makers make cameras with no noise and image stabilization so you can shoot in extreme low light without a tripod in some ways it will take the fun out of it. But you are right, you get what you pay for. You can get full frame sensor cameras with extremely low noise but you will have to lay down some serious cash. You get what you pay for.
But with that said I do see the day coming when you will be able to shoot at really high iso's with almost no noise. It will also be affordable to all at some point.

[Sushigaijin]

It doesn't look like a whole lot of noise to me. At print size, it would be noise-free.

The thing that contributes most to low-ISO noise in a shot like this is exposure time. Sensor heat causes noise, and the longer that sensor is working, the hotter it is going to get. Open it up and shoot a faster shutter - there isn't much reason to shoot that long exposure on this frame.