What are your thoughts on Georgia Vs Russia?

[Kajuah]

Kick me for this but I really like the direction George bush is going with opposing and standing up to Russia in the war over there. The rest of europe is turning a blind eye because russia controls 50 % of the natural gas supply to them as well as 25 % of the oil..but america? For once, they are being peacekeepers...it's a good end to his time in office, if he did nothing right then at least he prevailed for the good of people in the end.

It makes me feel that the world isn't so dog-driven over gas as it is turning out to be. Human life over money.

[JSPhoto]

The reason Bush is taking Georgia's side is simple, weapons. During Russia's absence in the arms race they secretly rebuilt their entire air force and moved control of the air force to the army, it's no longer seperate. Russia also began designing new tanks, aircraft and ships, as well as begining to refit the entire navy. The plan is to have a navy rivaling the US by 2021, including aircraft carrier strike forces. Then fast forward to about this time last year when US forces were doing manuvers off Guam, and suddenly out of nowhere appears a Russian bomber, long thought to have been beyond it's capabilities of making more than local (ie over Russia) flights. Needless to say this struck a nerve with US military personnel to find out that Russian bombers could once again make long distance flights. Then 12 hours later Chinese forces in strength crossed the Russian border in a first ever excersise where Russia invited a foreign military power to take part in war games ON Russian soil! Hours after that news hit the fan Putin made an announcement that all Cold War bomber flights that had been cancelled with the split of the Russian Federation have been resumed.Suddenly we were back in the Cold War. Then, at the same time Russia announced it had "pardoned" Syria for most of it's billions of debt from weapons purchases for the "use" of two Syrian ports on the Med that Russia had used prior to the split. They (Russia) now has a 99 year lease of those ports. Odd that Russian dredges had been dredging those two ports for two years prior to the annuncement and no one saw it coming!
So you can see Bush's siding with Georgia, and in fact the US has asked Georgia to set up air defence systems including anti-missile sites , not sure if they agreed to or not but I would if I were them.

JS

[Anbesol]

Theres something underneath it all that the media hasn't disclosed, Im also not all that familiar with Georgia as a country. Strangely enough, the Georgian military was actually trained by American military, and theres a tie between Georgia and US.

That being said, I don't know nearly enough about the entire situation and its dynamics to have an informed opinion.

[Frog]

I need to study the situation better but from what I gather, Georgia tried to take make a district/area that wanted to remain with Russia and only then did Russia respond.
So I wonder if that distirct/area had the legal right to separate from Georgia and I know I'll get a headache trying to discern the moral rights.
All Bush can do is bluster anyway. He's not going to make some military defense of Georgia and take on Russia. Talk is cheap.

[Anbesol]

Is a district in Georgia seceding from the union, and the Georgian government doesn't want that? Or are they trying to take over an already Russian patch? I remembered seeing the district in the report and it looks to be the former, bunch of fuss over a small piece of land. Isn't it always though...

[frleal70]

Sounds like the Kansas City Shuffle to me.

[Medley]

OK, let's draw a (very rough) parallel that US citizens can understand. Mind you, I get this from media reports, and it's simply the situation as I understand it.

In 1990, North Dakota secedes from the union, and declares themselves autonomous. Although maintaining it's separatist government for 18 years, it is never recognized by the U.N. as being independent. In those 18 years, North Dakota develops strong ties with Canada and Ottawa. An uneasy cease-fire is maintained with the U.S.

Fast-forward to recent events. The U.S. claims that North Dakota broke the cease-fire by attacking small towns (villages) in South Dakota and Montana, which North Dakota repeatedly denies. The U.S. move troops into North Dakota and surrounds the capital of Bismark in an effort to regain control of the region. Canada responds by moving troops into not only North Dakota, but Montana and other areas of the U.S/Canadian border as well, stating that they are simply protecting pro-Canadian civilians. The U.S. withdraws their troops to North Dakota's border, but Canada maintains troops in both North Dakota and the U.S., saying that it can't trust the U.S. not to attack again if it withdraws it's forces. Canada also tells the rest of the free world that this is none of their business, so butt out. The U.S. responds by accusing Canada of executing a well-planned invasion of the U.S.

The parallel misses several political nuances, such as the distribution of wealth and size of respective militaries, but that's the general gist of the situation, as I understand it.

- Joe U.

[JSPhoto]

This should give some insight into the Gerogian military, US involvement and Republic of South Ossetia which broke off from Georgia.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...orgia/army.htm

JS

[Medley]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it ironic that Bush is calling on Putin to withdraw his troops to "avoid further damage to his country's image on the world stage".

Hoo boy- talk about "Do as I say, not as I do"!

- Joe U.

[Kajuah]

It's ironic, i figure the USA is protecting its own interests again after reading through some ofthose links

[GB1]

It's obvious that the Russians are attacking Georgia a lot harder than they have justification for.

I agree with the Georgian president who says that Russia appears to be fighting a proxy war against the West (NATO) through Georgia. I don't think they've liked the US attacking the Iraq and Afganistan, getting cozy with former satellites, and making NATO members of countries on their doorsteps. I also think their pride has been hurt by their lose of clout since the USSR broke up. They appear to be trying to make a statement here.

I think in the end that this episode will probably hurt Russia more than it will help them. It will galvanize all the little countries around them to form defense leagues.

[filtersweep]

Actually, much of Europe outside the UK received more unbiased news. We tend to view Georgia as the aggressor here. Bush is acting like an idiot--- if Georgia is so close to the US, they should have considered the broader consequences first. Putin wants to restore Russia as a superpower. He knows the US cannot do anything meaningful in this situation. Bush has no grasp on diplomacy. He should have called on Georgia first.

And America is being more of a provocateur than peacekeeper. People in Georgia act like the US is doing absolutely nothing, since so far it has been largely empty words. Putin is brilliant- I hate his politics-- but he knows how to make Bush look bad in the eyes of the world.

Kick me for this but I really like the direction George bush is going with opposing and standing up to Russia in the war over there. The rest of europe is turning a blind eye because russia controls 50 % of the natural gas supply to them as well as 25 % of the oil..but america? For once, they are being peacekeepers...it's a good end to his time in office, if he did nothing right then at least he prevailed for the good of people in the end.

It makes me feel that the world isn't so dog-driven over gas as it is turning out to be. Human life over money.

[JSPhoto]

It's ironic, i figure the USA is protecting its own interests again after reading through some ofthose links

It's not just our own interests the US is protecting, but those of many other countries as well, losing any part of Georgia to Russia. Georgia is an important area militarily as well and US aircraft have used a couple airbases there for ops in Afghanistan during the opening weeks of the war. Putin knows that having Georgia align with the US is not in the best intrest of Russia security wise which is really why Putin sent forces in, the "public" excuses are just covering up his true intentions which is to regain control of all of Georgia.

JS

[racedraper]

Could this be a start to WWIII? Russia well they desised to pull out of Nato with there military and
Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407262,00.html
your thoughts on this

[SmartWombat]

It's simple, it's all Stalin's grand plan.
A long range plan.

Within the Soviet Union, ensure that the statelets that are created include multiple ethnic groups. Also ensure that each is not economically viable on its own. If the larger state (Georgia) secedes, then eventually its smaller regions (Abkhazia) will want to push for their independence and joining with 'their' ethnic neighbours (Ossetia, south and north).

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. So support for the south Ossetian freedom fighters in their desire to join with (Russian) north Ossetia makes sense for Russia. Particularly if the Russian troops can pull out and leave the fight to the Ossetians.

Cynical? Yes.
Planned? Definitely.


I heard the term "Balkanisation" recently on the radio - haven't heard that for ages. Not since the breakup of the former Yugoslavia.
Its original meaning is the term once used by historians and diplomats to denote the deliberate fragmentation of a region into a number of quasi-independent, mutually hostile statelets.


Oh yes and on the subject of action.
The west will do nothing, as in the Warsaw pact invasion of Czechoslovakia today (August 21) in 1968 - words alone will not protect Georgia.
http://www.lib.umich.edu/spec-coll/czech/
http://store.magnumphotos.com/index....oducts_id=2216
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...ka/html/10.stm
(let's keep it photo related !)


One big question for you - forget oil !
You have to remember the US manned space program doesn't work.
How will America get to the International Space Station without Russia?
How will the ISS get resupplied without Russian "progress" system automated deliveries?
How will the astronauts leave the ISS without the Soyuz spacecraft?
What will happen to the "international" space station if the spirit of cooperation dies?

[tranquill]

Russia-Georgia conflict created a big headache for Israel which armed and trained Georgians for years - and now suddenly Russians threaten retaliation by supplying S-300 SAM batteries to Syria. Here is what a prominent Israeli analyst says: http://samsonblinded.org/blog/on-rus...and-israel.htm