Those wacky shuttle folks at NASA are at it again...

[walterick]

Well, I can't claim to be educated about the workings of NASA.

But that never stopped me from having an opinion before

It seems to me that scientists are normally very rigorous, careful, meticulous people, and if something isn't right, they would rather redo the whole thing at the expense of millions than go ahead with something they know is wrong...

... so, *IF* that's the case with the scientists at NASA, I wonder what else is pushing this shuttle launch forward. Steve you mentioned the Bush administration's goals for NASA. I wonder what role political pressure plays in this scenario?

I wonder to what extent politicians have moved into high-ranking positions in NASA and began directing the organization in certain directions per their interests?

I wonder what effect commercial interests have here. Are there satelites going up? Who's going to use them? Is their research being done? What company stands to profit from these experiments?

Michael mentioned the space station. What's going on up there? What research or activities are occuring? How informed is the American public as to the goingson on that space station? How many Americans are aware that we even have a space station?

I may be way off base here, but my first thought in reading your post Steve is that there were pressures going on under the surface pushing the launch to occur.

Call me the conspiracy theorist

[mwfanelli]

It seems to me that scientists are normally very rigorous, careful, meticulous people, and if something isn't right, they would rather redo the whole thing at the expense of millions than go ahead with something they know is wrong...

But these are engineers. Engineers have a scientific background but are also well grounded in the practical. Scientists wonder "how things work" while engineers think about "how can I use this?"

Michael mentioned the space station. What's going on up there? What research or activities are occuring? How informed is the American public as to the goingson on that space station? How many Americans are aware that we even have a space station?

The space staion was supposed to be for research but that never materialized. There is no signifigant science going on, most efforts are at trying to keep the stupid thing from falling apart. Americans don't care, scientists don't care because there is nothing to care about.

[walterick]

But these are engineers. Engineers have a scientific background but are also well grounded in the practical. Scientists wonder "how things work" while engineers think about "how can I use this?"

Michael, what would you say the ratio of scientists to engineers is at NASA? Do you feel the engineers would be less careful in preparing for a launch?

Do you disagree there are political/commercial pressures at work here?

The space staion was supposed to be for research but that never materialized. There is no signifigant science going on, most efforts are at trying to keep the stupid thing from falling apart. Americans don't care, scientists don't care because there is nothing to care about.

So, what are they doing there besides supergluing and duct taping things back together?

[mwfanelli]

Michael, what would you say the ratio of scientists to engineers is at NASA? Do you feel the engineers would be less careful in preparing for a launch?

Do you disagree there are political/commercial pressures at work here?

Many, many more engineers. Yes, the administrators at NASA are under political pressure. But this pressure is not a conspiracy (I hope) just an abundance of ignorance and no background in technology.

So, what are they doing there besides supergluing and duct taping things back together?

Duct tape? They have duct tape??!!!

They litearlly spend all their time doing repairs and maintenance, hoping that their oxygen doesn't run out thanks to continuously faulty generators. Perhaps all the money being "spent" on the ISS is actually funding alien research at Area 51. Hmmm...

[Asylum Steve]

Perhaps all the money being "spent" on the ISS is actually funding alien research at Area 51. Hmmm...

Man, don't you watch West Wing? Alien research has been moved to Fort Knox...

[yakkosmurf]

Duct tape? They have duct tape??!!!

They litearlly spend all their time doing repairs and maintenance, hoping that their oxygen doesn't run out thanks to continuously faulty generators.

Yes, they have duct tape. Why not? It's a great product.

Until last week, there was only one oxygen generator on board. It's Russian built and has been breaking frequently. There are plenty of spare parts for it, so the crew usually gets it running in short order. Also, because oxygen is precious, there are two backup systems to supply oxygen to the crew that are completely different from the generator. A US built generator was flown on the current Shuttle, so the oxygen production systems are not of a concern at all. With 4 layers of redundancy, the crew could stay forever if the one giving the crew problems thus far broke for good. Again, you guys are making a big deal out of nothing, and running wild with false and half information. Learn to use the web.

[mwfanelli]

Sad but true. Decreasing NASA budgets are forcing NASA to look at completely discontinuing research on the space station. This follows a shift away from basic research that has already happened over the years:

"Rather than researching materials, fluid physics and other basic microgravity phenomena, NASA decided to fund only those programs that had a direct bearing on human spaceflight beyond low-Earth orbit, which is where the space station and the space shuttles fly. Funding for radiation studies, for example, was to be a key part of the U.S. station research program."

"When implementing more than $300 million of station cuts last year, NASA Administrator Michael Griffin told Congress it was more important to get the station built than spend money for research."

Sad, but it does confirm what some of us have been saying about the ISS here in this thread.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/0...eut/index.html

[yakkosmurf]

Michael, what would you say the ratio of scientists to engineers is at NASA? Do you feel the engineers would be less careful in preparing for a launch?

It's all engineers that work on the launching of the vehicle. Scientists are only involved in the experiments the crew performs while on board. The ratio would depend on the area at NASA. The life sciences group that coordinates all of the ISS experiments is all scientists and no engineers, while the launch people and mission control operators are all engineers and no scientists.

[yakkosmurf]

The space staion was supposed to be for research but that never materialized. There is no signifigant science going on, most efforts are at trying to keep the stupid thing from falling apart. Americans don't care, scientists don't care because there is nothing to care about.

Not true at all. You should see the number of experiments run on ISS. There are also plans to have two more laboratory modules up in the next couple of years with a crew of six people. The amount of science is pretty incredible. That said, the repair remark is also greatly exaggerated. The crew's 10 hour work day is less than an hour of total for all of them for maintenance. Some of the Russian equipment breaks frequently, but it's usually only the Russian crewmember that's occupied with the repairs. Please get some accurate information before saying things that are dead wrong. You can get it from the NASA websites like I do.

[yakkosmurf]

Well, I can't claim to be educated about the workings of NASA.


I may be way off base here, but my first thought in reading your post Steve is that there were pressures going on under the surface pushing the launch to occur.

The only pressures to get the launch to occur is to finish the ISS before 2010, plain and simple. NASA has some contractual agreements with its International Partners to have their modules flown to the Station in the near future. The longer it takes to get back to regular Shuttle flights, the fewer flights there will be. That said, the ISS assembly sequence has been changed more times than you can count. It is a very robust design, so if there are fewer flights, things can be dropped and rearranged to accomodate the few Shuttles. That's why NASA isn't being pushed to fly before things are safe. There is plenty of flexibility in the ISS design and assembly sequence.