Race and Gender

[bluesguy]

How much has Race and Gender been a factor in the presidential race. A little, or a lot or somewhere in between? Has it "colored"(no pun intended) your perspective and your choice of a canidate in this race? Will you sit this one out because a black man(Obama) and a female(Palin) is on the respective parties tickets?


bluesguy

[Dylan8i]

it hasn't mattered to me. (hasn't influenced my choice - as far as i can tell at least). it has made the election interesting to follow though because it has influenced many people, and maybe not the way i expected it to.


oh i guess one thing that it has affected me, is that i feel if obama is elected I feel (along with a bunch of other people i have talked to) there is a good chance that attempts on his life will be made by the crazys in this country, so maybe im following the VP choices more?

[jgredline]

Here is a good article I read the other day.
If Barack Obama loses the 2008 election, liberal hell will break loose.

Seven weeks before the 2008 presidential election, liberals are warning America that if Barack Obama loses, it is because Americans are racist. Of course, that this means that Democrats (and independents) are racist, since Republicans will vote Republican regardless of the race of the Democrat, is an irony apparently lost on the Democrats making these charges.

That an Obama loss will be due to racism is becoming as normative a liberal belief as “Bush Lied, People Died,” a belief has generated intense rage among many liberals. But “Obama lost because of white racism” will be even more enraging. Rage over the Iraq War has largely focused on President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney. But if Obama loses, liberal rage will focus on millions of fellow Americans and on American society.

And it could become a rage the likes of which America has not seen in a long time, if ever. It will first and foremost come from within black America. The deep emotional connection that nearly every black American has to an Obama victory is difficult for even empathetic non-blacks to measure. A major evangelical pastor told me that even evangelical black pastors who share every conservative value with white evangelical pastors, including pro-life views on abortion, will vote for Obama. They feel their very dignity is on the line.

That is why the growing chorus -- already nearing unanimity -- of liberal commentators and politicians ascribing an Obama loss to American racism is so dangerous.

Andrew Sullivan of (set ital) The Atlantic: (end ital) “White racism means that Obama needs more than a small but clear lead to win.”

Jack Cafferty of CNN: “The polls remain close. Doesn’t make sense … unless it’s race.”

Jacob Weisberg of (set ital) Newsweek and Slate: (end ital) “The reason Obama isn't ahead right now is … the color of his skin. … If Obama loses, our children will grow up thinking of equal opportunity as a myth.”

Nicholas D. Kristof of (set ital) New York Times: (end ital) “Religious prejudice (against Obama) is becoming a proxy for racial prejudice.”

Gerald W. McEntee, president of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, in a speech to union workers: “Are you going to give up your house and your job and your children's futures because he's black?”

For the rest of the story, click on link.
http://townhall.com/Columnists/Denni...elf-fulfilling

[Frog]

I'm sure its an issue with some, but not for me. I think some are trying to make it an issue, both extreme right and extreme left, but personally I'm glad they are on the fringes and as far as I can tell its a non-issue for most and I'm glad of that.
If/when he becomes president, race will become even less of an issue in the private sector of America, thank God!

[bluesguy]

Yes,, there are a lot of crazies out there on both sides of the fence that may want to kill Obama if elected. If he loses, then I hope that it will be by a large enough margin that will leave no doubt that he was rejected by the voting public. I sincerely hope that another Florida "chad" incident does not cloudy or muddy the waters. The comments below was contained in an email that was sent to me:

Just Because He's Black

A white man asked his black friend, 'Are you voting for Barack Obama just because he's black'? The black man responded by saying, why not? Hell, in this country men are pulled over
everyday just cause they are black, passed over for promotions just cause they are black, considered to be criminals just cause they are black, and there are going to be thousands of you who wont be voting for him just cause he's black!
However, you do not seem to have a problem with that! This country was built with the sweat and whip off the slaves black, and now a descendant of those same slaves has a chance to lead the same country, where we weren't even considered to be people, Where we weren't allowed to be educated, drink from the same water fountains, eat in the same restaurants, or even vote, so you damn right I'm going to vote for him!
But it's not just because he's black, but because he is hope, he is change, and he now allows me to understand when my grandson says he wants to be president when he grows up, it is not a fairy tale but a short te rm goal, Because he sees, understands, and knows, he can achieve, withstand, and do anything just because he's black!

Comments?

[GB1]

It's a big factor because of the weakness of the candidates on both sides. The only thing that's waking up the public is the race and gender topic.

Ja ?!?

Btw - did you hear the Pakistani prez' comments to Palin?

[jgredline]

It's a big factor because of the weakness of the candidates on both sides. The only thing that's waking up the public is the race and gender topic.

Ja ?!?

Btw - did you hear the Pakistani prez' comments to Palin?

I think it is fair to say that most know who I am voting for, but I do not want to win this election on Race...Sadly though, it looks like that will decide this race....



G, I have not heard them. What did he say?

[GB1]

I think it is fair to say that most know who I am voting for, but I do not want to win this election on Race...Sadly though, it looks like that will decide this race....



G, I have not heard them. What did he say?

From http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4171510.story



Palin gets cozy with Pakistan's president
Asif Ali Zardari tells McCain's running mate that she's 'even more gorgeous' than he thought.
September 25, 2008

Sarah Palin, John McCain's running mate, has been getting a crash course in diplomacy and international affairs this week, meeting her first foreign heads of state courtesy of the U.N. General Assembly's annual gathering of international bigwigs.

Most of the meetings have gone off without a hitch, a lightning round of sessions in which curious world leaders finally get a gander at a potential vice president who has rarely traveled abroad and who has claimed that her foreign policy credentials include living in a state that is close to Russia.

On Wednesday, however, officials traveling with Pakistan's new president, Asif Ali Zardari, got up close and personal.

Shortly before Palin met the Pakistani leader at the InterContinental Hotel, aides for the two squabbled about whether they should sit behind a low coffee table. Zardari's aides wanted a table, Palin's staff did not. Ultimately the table was taken away. Score one for the Americans.

Entering the room, Palin was introduced not only to Zardari but to Makhdoom Shah Mahmood Quershi, Pakistan's foreign minister, and Sherry Rehman, the information minister.

"So nice to meet you," Palin said politely.

"Busy on the campaign trail?" Rehman asked.

"Yes, yes," Palin replied.

"How does one keep looking that good?" Rehman inquired.

"Oh, oh, thank you," the governor responded.

At that point, Zardari entered and the conversation turned decidedly flirtatious. He told her she was "even more gorgeous" than he thought.

"You are so nice," Palin said. "Thank you."

Zardari pressed on: "Now I know why the whole of America is crazy about you."

At that point a Zardari handler asked them to shake hands again for the cameras.

"I'm supposed to pose again," Palin said.

"If he's insisting," Zardari said, "I might hug."

Eventually, real business got underway.

Palin, who has yet to hold a news conference since McCain plucked her from relative obscurity on Aug. 29, even answered a reporter's question as to how she enjoyed her meetings.

"It's going great," she said. "The meetings are very informative and helpful. A lot of good people share an appreciation for America."

--

[Medley]

I suppose I would have to say, honestly, that it's had an effect. In considering the possibility of a black President, I think you also have to consider the possibility of an assassination- at least an attempt.

But, if I'm guilty of race discrimination, I'm also guilty of age discrimination on the part of John McCain. I consider it equally possible that he may not finish out a full term. This may be unjustified, but he hardly seems the picture of health to me now. Add to that the stresses of being President......

So I'm taking a harder look at the Vice-Presidential candidates this year than I ever have, and considering the possibility that either of them could end up at the helm. To the extent that my actions are different this year (as opposed to previous elections), I'd have to say that yeah, race has been a factor.

- Joe U.

[bluesguy]

I suppose I would have to say, honestly, that it's had an effect. In considering the possibility of a black President, I think you also have to consider the possibility of an assassination- at least an attempt.

But, if I'm guilty of race discrimination, I'm also guilty of age discrimination on the part of John McCain. I consider it equally possible that he may not finish out a full term. This may be unjustified, but he hardly seems the picture of health to me now. Add to that the stresses of being President......

So I'm taking a harder look at the Vice-Presidential candidates this year than I ever have, and considering the possibility that either of them could end up at the helm. To the extent that my actions are different this year (as opposed to previous elections), I'd have to say that yeah, race has been a factor.

- Joe U.

Seems to me at least how sad that assassination must be factored into a decision on a presidential canidate in these United States. All things considered, Joe Biden would be a better Vice Present(President) then Palin if worse comes to worse.
What kind of message would America send to the world and also to it's citizens if Obama would be elected and then killed or even killed before the election? Would we still espose the same idea of equality for everyone etc.?



bluesguy

[Medley]

Seems to me at least how sad that assassination must be factored into a decision on a presidential canidate in these United States. All things considered, Joe Biden would be a better Vice Present(President) then Palin if worse comes to worse.
What kind of message would America send to the world and also to it's citizens if Obama would be elected and then killed or even killed before the election? Would we still espose the same idea of equality for everyone etc.?



bluesguy

Agreed on all counts. It is indeed sad to have to think that way, but I firmly believe that there are souls out there that are twisted enough to consider just such an act.

I don't know if you caught the Katie Couric interview of Sarah Palin, but it has cemented my belief that Biden would DEFINITELY be the better candidate to succeed a fallen president. I think it's one interview everyone in America should watch.

As we head into the first of the Presidential debates tonight, bear in mind that both presidential candidates (and the vice-presidential candidates, for that matter) have the same goals:

1) Accentuate their strengths
2) Neutralize their weaknesses
And above all,
3) Appear Presidential, and ready to lead.

With those goals in mind, here's a link to the Couric/ Palin interview, for those that missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ

The fact that electing McCain leaves us one heart attack away from "President Palin" scares the S&^% out of me. And it has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.

Just my personal opinion though.

- Joe U.

[bluesguy]

Agreed on all counts. It is indeed sad to have to think that way, but I firmly believe that there are souls out there that are twisted enough to consider just such an act.

I don't know if you caught the Katie Couric interview of Sarah Palin, but it has cemented my belief that Biden would DEFINITELY be the better candidate to succeed a fallen president. I think it's one interview everyone in America should watch.

As we head into the first of the Presidential debates tonight, bear in mind that both presidential candidates (and the vice-presidential candidates, for that matter) have the same goals:

1) Accentuate their strengths
2) Neutralize their weaknesses
And above all,
3) Appear Presidential, and ready to lead.

With those goals in mind, here's a link to the Couric/ Palin interview, for those that missed it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbg6hF0nShQ

The fact that electing McCain leaves us one heart attack away from "President Palin" scares the S&^% out of me. And it has nothing to do with the fact that she's a woman.

Just my personal opinion though.

- Joe U.

Sure wasn't impressive in her interview with Couric. Her last response was almost comedic. Having her being the president would surely herald the decline and fall of America as we know it. Just what the hell were the power brokers of the RNC thinking when she was picked? There were move viable female canidates available if they wanted a female on the ticket to counter a black man. Pardon my cynicism.

[Medley]

Case in point: After the debate last night, as the two candidates (presumably) headed back to Washington, Joe Biden was out talking with reporters, taking questions, and explaining their stand on the issues.

Sarah Palin? Nowhere to be seen. Which, unfortunately, was probably the best move the McCain campaign could have made.

Personally, I rated the debate about 50-50. But after the week that McCain has had with the media, I would think that his campaign was hoping for more than a tie. I saw the shoot-from-the-hip, roll-with-the-punches style that McCain is known for, and the same calm, collected mannerisms that we've all seen from Obama. But I have to ask myself, "which attitude better reflects the style I want to see out of our next President?"

I understand the McCain campaign is putting together a new video that shows every time that Barack Obama said that John McCain was right about something last night. While I'm almost certain that several quotes will be taken out of context, I'm very happy that the GOP wishes to spotlight the differences in bi-partisanship between the two candidates- especially after John McCain himself lauded the ability of Washington to come together to resolve their differences over the economic bailout in his opening statements.

- Joe U.

[bluesguy]

Case in point: After the debate last night, as the two candidates (presumably) headed back to Washington, Joe Biden was out talking with reporters, taking questions, and explaining their stand on the issues.

Sarah Palin? Nowhere to be seen. Which, unfortunately, was probably the best move the McCain campaign could have made.

Personally, I rated the debate about 50-50. But after the week that McCain has had with the media, I would think that his campaign was hoping for more than a tie. I saw the shoot-from-the-hip, roll-with-the-punches style that McCain is known for, and the same calm, collected mannerisms that we've all seen from Obama. But I have to ask myself, "which attitude better reflects the style I want to see out of our next President?"

I understand the McCain campaign is putting together a new video that shows every time that Barack Obama said that John McCain was right about something last night. While I'm almost certain that several quotes will be taken out of context, I'm very happy that the GOP wishes to spotlight the differences in bi-partisanship between the two candidates- especially after John McCain himself lauded the ability of Washington to come together to resolve their differences over the economic bailout in his opening statements.

- Joe U.

Did not see the debate live as I went East to see a niece that had returned from Iraq.
From what I pieced together from the media that parsed every word and sentence, Obana had a slight lead in the debate. It appeared that Obama was better in the area of thinking on his feet, whereas McCain was a bit disjointed in his responses.

bluesguy

[Anbesol]

Why don't people call Obama a white man? He is every bit as white as he is black.

And why do people call Palin a woman, shes a dude in disguise.

[bluesguy]

Why don't people call Obama a white man? He is every bit as white as he is black.

And why do people call Palin a woman, shes a dude in disguise.

Perhaps he identifies more being black then white. Remember in the bad old days when race mixing was taboo, most children from white/black relationships identified with being black as a result of the "a single drop of black blood" . Also on most documents, there was not the option of being "mixed", ie. bi-racial as we have today. When the "master" decided he wanted a little dark meat he had his way and if a child came about as a result of that union, then the child was deemed "black". Society still looks upon the result of that union as "black"
Can't make an intelligent comment on the Palin question

bluesguy

[Anbesol]

I was being dumb with the Palin comment.

I still think culture and race are two different things, hes just as white as Joe Biden, and just as black as Richard Pryor in my book. I just find it peculiar nobody ever talks about his whiteness, as he has a clear white cultural influence (i.e. European descendant American, Caucasian genes). If hes both, why can people only recognize him as one?

[bluesguy]

I was being dumb with the Palin comment.

I still think culture and race are two different things, hes just as white as Joe Biden, and just as black as Richard Pryor in my book. I just find it peculiar nobody ever talks about his whiteness, as he has a clear white cultural influence (i.e. European descendant American, Caucasian genes). If hes both, why can people only recognize him as one?

Perhaps it is as with most things racial in America, he is not white enough to suit a lot of white Americans nor is he black enough to satisfy a lot of African Americans. That situation is what a lot of bi-racial folks have to deal with in our American society. Americans still view people thru the prism of race first. The content of character, intelligence, and most other human characteristics are secondary to race and ethnic origins. .That is as constant in American society and the laws of physics.


bluesguy

[Anbesol]

And the laws of physics??

American society is a bit unique in the world, we are the most diverse hodge podge of different cultures. In some ways, it makes for the widest array of social possibilities, but on the other side of that coin, their are a large number of people who reduce the opportunity into a culture war (Bill OReilly, Jesse Jackson). Very tribal. But there are also people who integrate very well and make well of the opportunity, Obama is a shining example of this, he transcends race quite well, I guess you'd have to to get the democratic nomination.

[bluesguy]

And the laws of physics??

American society is a bit unique in the world, we are the most diverse hodge podge of different cultures. In some ways, it makes for the widest array of social possibilities, but on the other side of that coin, their are a large number of people who reduce the opportunity into a culture war (Bill OReilly, Jesse Jackson). Very tribal. But there are also people who integrate very well and make well of the opportunity, Obama is a shining example of this, he transcends race quite well, I guess you'd have to to get the democratic nomination.

People like O'reilly, Jackson, Rush Limbaugh, et al need a straw dog(race) to keep a job(talking heads) therefor they pander to a society that sees themselves dis-franchised,
etc. They keep the pot boiling because the media moguls sees this as a way to keep ratings up. If the pot of race was not available or boiling, lots of folks would not have a job thus they would become irrevelent. The laws of physics was meant to be an example of things that are constant. Have you ever heard of one that has been changed since they were created?


bluesguy