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  1. #1
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Finally saw Star Wars 3

    Kind of a disappointment. Various reasons, the computer effects were good, but I thought they were over done. The guy who plays Anniken is not very good either. And frankly, the fact that droids were saying ouch when they got shot bugged me.
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  2. #2
    don't tase me, bro! Asylum Steve's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    At its core, the Star Wars saga (like the term implies) is all about STORYTELLING...

    Now maybe it's because of my age, or the fact that I saw all of the movies in the theatre in the order they were created, but IMO the original SW (Episode IV) is still the best and the purest.

    To me, the last three (newest trilogy) were very entertaining, but compared to the first three were little more than exercises in CGI. From a pure storytelling standpoint, they don't come close...

    Quote Originally Posted by adina
    Kind of a disappointment. Various reasons, the computer effects were good, but I thought they were over done. The guy who plays Anniken is not very good either. And frankly, the fact that droids were saying ouch when they got shot bugged me.
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  3. #3
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    I agreed with most other critics/fans that this episode was the best of the last three (released) but never came close to the first three in quality, depth, or impact. The first three are monuments in our culture and the last three were tying up the loose ends - nice to see our beloved charaters again, but would they have faired well without the preceeding three movies?

    I liked Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan, though I thought he could have used a little more gravitas. Other than that, I thought Natalie Portman was terrible, the kid who played Anakin was acceptable, and wasn't Samuel L Jackson a little scarey?

    I agree with Steve that the last three were great exercises in graphics but thought they were terrible exerices in character development.

    And Return of the Jedi is the best of the 6 and possibly one of the greatest movies ever

    Now what have you heard about Indian Jones 4?

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  4. #4
    Learning more with every "click" mjs1973's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    I haven't seen any of the new SW movies yet. I should the whole six pack of them and blow a weekend in front of the tube. I did that with the 3 Lord of the Ring movies. It seemed like a huge waste of time while I was watching them, but once the last one was over, I wanted more.
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  5. #5
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    I find it hard to believe that Return of the Jedi could top Crybaby or Hairspray as the greatest movie ever. Perhaps it would be in the top 5 with them.....
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  6. #6
    Jedi Master masdog's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    I hate to be the one to disagree on almost every point, but the actors did the best they could, given what they were working with. The dialogue in the prequels was horrible across the board. George Lucas doesn't know how to write dialogue. The best line in the entire trilogy (the scene in ESB when Han and Leia confess their love) was ad-libbed by Ford.

    It doesn't help that Lucas really doesn't know how to work with actors either. Their performances were wooden because he didn't know how to direct them. Christensen and Portman aren't low-talent nobodies - they're just young and needed more from the director to make the most of their character.

    Episode III, and the whole trilogy, could have been better if Kevin Smith ghostwrote all the dialogue and Steven Spielberg directed. But I don't think Lucas would have let anyone touch his baby.
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  7. #7
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    [QUOTE=masdog]

    It doesn't help that Lucas really doesn't know how to work with actors either. Their performances were wooden because he didn't know how to direct them. Christensen and Portman aren't low-talent nobodies - they're just young and needed more from the director to make the most of their character.
    QUOTE]

    Okay, I'll give you Natalie Portman, but what else has Hayden Christensen done?
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  8. #8
    Jedi Master masdog's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    You know...I don't know what else Hayden C. has done. And I'm too lazy to browse over to IMDB to find out.
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  9. #9
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    Quote Originally Posted by adina
    I find it hard to believe that Return of the Jedi could top Crybaby or Hairspray as the greatest movie ever. Perhaps it would be in the top 5 with them.....
    Ah, and let's not forget Grease 2!
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  10. #10
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    If you look at interviews with Ford, Fisher, and Hamill they groooooan about how bad the scripting was in the original three. I particularly remember Carry Fisher complaining about the line "I could smell your foul stench" from the first one and how she had to say it with sincerity.

    It really was a miracle that the original star wars had the cast that it did. Take Ford, Guiness, or Fisher ("I am not a committee!") out of the picture and you have a completely different set of films.

    Perhaps the cast of the last 3 - with the possible exception of McGregor - weren't up to the task of translating Lucas' stark script to the big screen.

    Natalie Portman is an interesting aside by herself. I am interested in hearing everyone else's opinion on her. I have seen her in Star Wars, Garden State, and Closer, and I must say she is a different person every time! I don't know if that is due to great acting or terrible self identity. For some reason I suspect the latter.

    On the other hand I'm a big fan of McGregor's who also plays diverse roles (Big Fish, Star Wars, and a singing role in Moulan Rouge) and he always seems to pull it off with a strong presence that makes me like him. Someone had to play Alec Guiness in the last three movies. I thought he did a great job.

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  11. #11
    Mig
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    He was also in Life As A House, which was just okay, but he starred in Shattered Glass, about journalist(!) Stephen Glass and was actually very good. I went back to rottentomatoes.com to find a quote I had read there, seeing as it fit in nicely with your earlier point.

    "Christensen is terrific as the deceptively boyish Glass, and his performance confirms the notion that people who act badly in George Lucas movies (he's Anakin Skywalker) aren't bad actors, they're just in George Lucas movies."
    Yes, Lucas' dialogue stinks like milk left in the sun. Portman, however, I really did expect better from. Granted, she's relatively young, but she's been acting for 11 years. I paused her "climatic" seen with Anakin to get more soda.

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  12. #12
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    Interesting points Rick.

    I completely agree that McGregor was the exception here. One of the things I loved about him in this was that you could tell he had paid attention to the way Alec Guiness played Obi-Wan. He also did this very well with regards to Albert Finney in Big Fish. And he had his fair share of cheesy lines, but managed to hold his own against them.



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  13. #13
    Jedi Master masdog's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    McGregor did a great job playing Obi Wan. He is one of the few exceptions to any Lucas movie, mainly because his character is supposed to be so dry. I also think Samuel L. Jackson did a good job as Mace Windu, especially since that was the bad motha [deleted] of the Star Wars universe.

    The other characters didn't have the development that they needed. Anakin wasn't portrayed as a proud Jedi who was a quick rising star in the order - he was shown as a bratty little boy who never grew up. That type of character does nothing to help the development of Darth Vader, the man in black who is supposed to be the evilist man alive.

    I haven't seen much of Portman's other work. I can't say if she is a good or bad actress or has a poor self-identity.
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  14. #14
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    along that line...

    We didn't thing there was enough build up to make Anakin, who is supposed to bring balance to the universe, and who's lifelong goal was to become a Jedi master, decide to be Darth Vader. It's like, hmmm, having a bad day, I'm going to turn to the dark side. I think they hit on it, save his wife, that kind of thing, but it was such a brief blurb in the movie. Wasn't it supposed to be the reason for that movie? The whole "creation of Darth Vador" thing?
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  15. #15
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    Ah, and let's not forget Grease 2!

    Ahhh, Rick, I believe that's blasphamy. Now had you said the original Grease, that'd be a different story.
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  16. #16
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    Hey stranger!

    "One of the things I loved about him in this was that you could tell he had paid attention to the way Alec Guiness played Obi-Wan. "

    Well said! I had the same thought in watching Episode I that McGregor had really studied up on Alec Guiness' style and was doing very well by it. You have to respect an actor that puts that much work into his job. Guiness left big shoes to fill.

    Did anyone see McGregor in The Island? It seemed like a departure for him, just wondering if anyone saw it.

    Rick
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  17. #17
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: Finally saw Star Wars 3

    "Anakin wasn't portrayed as a proud Jedi who was a quick rising star in the order - he was shown as a bratty little boy who never grew up."

    I agree, that's a good way of putting it. I think there's a big gap between Anakin Skywalker at the end of Episode 3 and Darth Vader in Episode 4. They don't click, like there's a "missing link."

    On a positive note, I found it cool as hell that they got James Earl Jones to be DV's voice again, if only just for a few lines

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  18. #18
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: along that line...

    I agree Adina. The creation of Darth Vader was the whole point of the first three movies, and I found it rather anticlimatic when it happened. "I'm having a bad day" LOL I could tell that there was going to be a missing link early on in the prequels when they showed Anakin as a sweet little boy. I wanted him to be "evil," "bad" or at least mildly distempered. But he was sweet, the kind of kid you want to have at home, and right off the bat I was like, "how are they going to get this kid to be DARTH VADER, THE MOST EVILST MAN IN THE WORLD in only 3 movies?!" I didn't like the progression from sweet kid to bratty teen to EVIL LORD. It just didn't make sense to me. Like, hey, kid, snap out of it, everyone has a hard time in their teens. Not: I WILL CONTROL PEOPLES MINDS TAKE OVER THE UNIVERSE AND KILL PEOPLE BY SQUEEZING THEIR THROATS! MWAH HAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!!!

    But that's just me.

    I am hoping that Lucas will die and someone with a passion for the original Star Wars movies will take over Skywalker and ILM and do a final, "Episode 7" that ties up all the loose ends of the series, brings a little grace to the trilogy and lets the Star Wars name go out with grace, not the wimper and "oomph" that it left us with in these last three.

    At least Episode 3 was the best of the three, I'd have hated the trilogy to go out on something along the lines and quality of the first one.

    All imo, of course.

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  19. #19
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: along that line...

    We thought 2 was the worst. My dh has issues with how computerized everything is.

    On the plus side, what they will probably go out with is collectors edition extended behind the scenes cast commentary directors cut DVD with all 6, plus extra disks of George Lucus giving us a play by play...oh wait...I said on the plus side...

    At least we'll be able to get the orginals on DVD, although there is something to be said for the gritty-ness of 20 yr old VHS's.
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  20. #20
    Mig
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    Re: along that line...

    Except you don't get the originals on DVD. You get Lucas's redone originals on DVD. I really do understand that they're his movies...but how many times is he going to change them? Han shoots Boba Fett in self-defense? Why pretty it up now?

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  21. #21
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: along that line...

    Quote Originally Posted by adina
    We thought 2 was the worst. My dh has issues with how computerized everything is.
    Who else here thought that the special effects in the FIRST 3 were better than in the LAST 3?!

    - proudly raises hand -

    Any movie that brings my attention to the fact that there's computer animation in it (ie, most of them nowadyas) loses a point for me right off the bat.
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  22. #22
    Jedi Master masdog's Avatar
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    Re: along that line...

    The special effects were better, in my opinion, but that doesn't make the movie good. Obvious advances in technology mean that we will have special effects - can you imagine if all the space battles in the first three were done on a SG workstation instead of stop-motion model photography?? The "Battle of Hoth" in ESB might have felt more realistic.

    Any movie that brings my attention to the fact that there's computer animation in it (ie, most of them nowadyas) loses a point for me right off the bat.
    What about movies that are entirely computer animation?? Finding Nemo? Toy Story? The Incredibles?
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  23. #23
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    Re: along that line...

    I think the picture has an excess of scenes saturated with cgi graphics that means nothing. In the beginning of the movie, aaaaaaall that scene with the tiny ship moving thru the battle is not better than the ending battle in episode IV. Why? Because the ending of episode IV tells a story, and shows the group cooperation that is needed to win a battle.
    Episode III start is something like "ohhh! look at that manouvering!". And what? that adds something to the story? No, just wasted time.
    Another bad thing with episode III is the unbeliability of characters. Anaking jumps from being a nearly normal guy to killing kids in a cuestion of minutes. That just won't happend here, or in a galaxy far .... faaaaar away.

  24. #24
    Viewfinder and Off-Topic Co-Mod walterick's Avatar
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    Re: along that line...

    I think Yoda is a good example of the original effects of the first three being better than the special effects in the last three.

    In Empire and Jedi Yoda was a real thing, a real entity that the actors could look at, the lighting fell correctly on, and he just looked real to me. In the last 3, he was not "real." His presence was not as impactful to me because he was not a real character in the scene. Yes, he could run and jump and flip (what was up with that, anyway?) and yield a light saber BUT he was a computer and that bothered me. I would rather have seen a muppet with limited movement than CGI with lightsabers. But that's my personal feel.

    Finding Nemo, Toy Story, Monsters Inc and Shrek are all GREAT movies. I enjoyed all of them immensely. But did the CGI make Finding Nemo a better movie? It was gorgeous, I admit. But I think the comedy is what made the film. Same for Shrek. The CGI there didn't do anything for me. Maybe it would have been equally great in traditional animation, I don't know.

    I really miss the old days of "real" special effects and muppets and people wearing costumes rather than computer animation. But that's just me. I did enjoy the Death Star battle scene in Return of the Jedi more than the opening scene in Episode III. I thought the forest speeder scene in Return of the Jedi was much cooler than the pod racer scene in Episode I. I think sometimes they go a little overboard with CGI and I can't keep up with everything that's going on in the screen ;)

    I am however pleased to see the evolution of CGI in films. Compare the first Jurrasic Park to the last, I think you'll see a big difference. Even Episode I versus Episode III showed an improvement imo. One of my favorite CGI scenes of all time is the scene in Hitchhiker's where they zoom out over the planets being constructed in the workshop. How beautiful was that?!

    This is all my opinion. But I miss the days when special effects guys had to work to put a Yoda or a land speeder in a scene and make it work. Sure, it was clumsy and not as technically smooth as todays computer work. But I think the integrity of putting real objects in real scenes overbears the effect of having seamless lines and complex space battles.

    All imo of course!

    Rick
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  25. #25
    Princess of the OT adina's Avatar
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    Re: along that line...

    Quote Originally Posted by walterick
    Who else here thought that the special effects in the FIRST 3 were better than in the LAST 3?!

    - proudly raises hand -

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