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  1. #1
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Apple won $1bn damages against Samsung for patents infringement on the iPhone. Things like having a rectangular telephone with round edges.

    I'm ashamed to still have an iPhone. It was all the rage two years ago but since all my geek collegues have switched to Android, infuriated by the closed, proprietary nature of Apple products.

    Any opinions?
    Charles

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  2. #2
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    It'll all come out again in the appeal, I guess.
    I'm annoyed that the cost of devices has to include a margin for suing everyone and defending against everyone else.

    To me Apple never was a geek's choice, it was a creative's choice.
    Geeks will jailbreak the iPhone and start adding modifications, but why when Android is more amenable to modification?
    PAul

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  3. #3
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    I checked out our technical consultants (geek) office. Not many people present, it's still holiday period:

    - one looked blankly at me. He still has an iPhone
    - one showed me his new basic telephone/SMS device saying it was enough for him and it had 3 times less radiation than his iPhone
    - the last is going to change his iPhone tomorrow for something simpler, exasperated by Apple's commercial policies

    Personally - I can't imagine being without some smartphone applications. I tried it last week when I synchronised my iPhone with another PC - and wiped out all my applications:

    - I check my public transport applications regularly to know if there is a problem on the 3 train lines I take and which is the fastest route to get home
    - Any time I leave the village I check the Paris area traffic application to see where the traffic jams are and take the best route
    - Google Maps whenever I'm travelling of course
    Charles

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  4. #4
    Formerly Michael Fanelli, mwfanelli, mfa mwfanelli2's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais View Post
    Apple won $1bn damages against Samsung for patents infringement on the iPhone. Things like having a rectangular telephone with round edges.
    The way it works is if you don't defend your patents you lose them. Blame the patent system, not Apple.

    I'm ashamed to still have an iPhone. It was all the rage two years ago but since all my geek collegues have switched to Android, infuriated by the closed, proprietary nature of Apple products.
    "Geek" is the key here. Almost no one has a desire to spend their time hacking their phones. You see lots of Android switchers, I couldn't find a single person at the school who has done that. Android to iPhone? A few. For most, its not a big deal either way.

    Do you demand an "open" system for all land lines, configuring the switches for each call? Do you demand control of the cell towers to tweak them to your desires? Do you control the satellites to get the TV signals you want? You really don't need to hack a phone unless it is some sort of hobby for you.

    A phone is a phone, that's it. Apple is successful because the vast majority of users just want to use it, not play hacker with it! I like that my Touch (I have a dumb Samsung phone) is free from the malware that infests the Android market.

    This is a lot like the old Microsoft/Apple debates. You have a totally unsecured OS in Windows that can do almost anything you can think of throwing at it but at great risk. You have MacOS that is much less powerful (GUI-wise as most people use) but is vastly more secure. You pick your poison. Same with phones. Think "choice" not "religious fervor"!
    “Men never do evil so cheerfully and completely as when they do so from religious conviction.” — Blaise Pascal

  5. #5
    Panarus biarmicus Moderator (Sports) SmartWombat's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Yes, it's the applications and not the device.
    It is all about the content provided, whether movies, books, or applications.
    Own the content in your own store and there's the profit for you, as well as the purpose for the end user.

    Like the Kindle and its bookstore - how many people load other books to it by email?

    Or the iPad and its bookstore - how many people download PDFs of books direct from the publishers and view then in iBooks - instead of using the company store that they sold their souls to?
    PAul

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  6. #6
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Grumble. Thanks for the replies. I think I've been spending too much time in a den of LINUX engineers, get me all het up like this.

    At least I know what Father Christmas will bring me this year.
    Charles

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  7. #7
    banished Don Schaeffer's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    I never did like Apple.

  8. #8
    Senior Member armando_m's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    I'm a software developer, or was for a number of years, today I can hardly write a hello world program without lots of help from the young fellows at work or lots of reading on the web

    I learned to program on an Apple II, which was an open system, really disliked the macs as they became close systems, and moved to the IBM PC and later to bigger systems (off topic: jobs biography and the arguments with wozniak explain the logic behind this move, and just confirm my dislike vs the current practices by Apple)

    A few years ago I programmed on a palm, got really caught in the early trend of mobile devices, move forward a few years, I got really excited when I got an Ipod touch , quite an evolution from the palm devices! but was such a disappointment when I found out that any kind of software I may develop for it required me to own a mac and to have the software evaluated by apple ... what ?!?!? no thanks , the device was relegated to carry my music, until recently when I dove into a pool with the thing in my pocket

    After years of having a very simple cell phone, I now have an android phone, I can develop software and load it on my phone as I please, so I'm going back slightly to my previous geeky status and having fun in the process

    and by the way , in my opinion calling this devices a "phone" is now very short sighted
    Last edited by armando_m; 08-28-2012 at 11:04 AM.

  9. #9
    Senior Member armando_m's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais View Post
    Grumble. Thanks for the replies. I think I've been spending too much time in a den of LINUX engineers, get me all het up like this.

    At least I know what Father Christmas will bring me this year.
    what ? anything but a iOS device !

  10. #10
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    never liked apple to much because you cannot use alot of programs with it

  11. #11
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Just setting up my iPhone 2 years ago set my teeth on edge:

    Question 1: What is your name?
    Question 2: What is your credit card number?

    I hate having my credit card number recorded on Internet. Plus there is the obvious assumption by Apple that you are going to spend money with them. All of my current iPhone applications are free.

    I think the current battle is not Apple vs Samsung but Apple vs Google (Android). And people who see a Smartphone as a consumer appliance that they control vs people who see a Smartphone as a computer system that respects open standards.

    But to be fair - two years ago Apple had the best selection of applications on the iPhone and even today it's a system that works well as long as you don't want to do something that iTunes doesn't understand.
    Charles

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  12. #12
    Senior Member armando_m's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Those 2 questions deterred me from getting an itunes account

    if you are still interested in that, there are itunes prepaid cards

    I agree 2 yrs ago the availability of applications on iOS was way larger than on Android,
    today I do not see that difference being a problem any more

  13. #13
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by armando_m View Post
    ..

    I agree 2 yrs ago the availability of applications on iOS was way larger than on Android,
    today I do not see that difference being a problem any more
    Today Google has the killer service (for me) - Google Navigation. The best solution for GPS is to have the terminal in the car talking over Internet to a central server that has all the latest information on roads and traffic and can tell you the best way to go right now. Google has it (more or less - and it's free). Apple doesn't.
    Charles

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  14. #14
    Moderator Skyman's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    My first foray into android was with a acer tablet. It was very good but at the time the Ipads were much much easier to use. I then tried a cheap aldi tablet. It was an ok media player but doing anything else was too much, and then it decided it would need a hard reboot every 20mins if it was to do anything. Needless to say it went back. My Wife bought a galaxy SII, it looks like quite a capable smart phone, but the user interface just isn't as good as apples, despite the SII dramatically out performing my ailing 4. I also love the ipad2 that work gave me. It is a pain being stuck in the apple symbiot when it comes to transitioning between computers, getting a new device etc, especially for an IT person, the 5 synching computers / devices is a real pain. However that pain is fairly infrequent for the vast majority of people and in my opinion the lack of pain for daily use outweighs the larger but infrequent pain. With android I feel that the interface lacks that polish that makes you forget there is an interface at all.

    To me that is worth sticking with apple. So now I have an Ipad2, and Iphone 4 and an apple TV. My Mac G5 tower went to god earlier in the year and I have a clunker macbook pro, but since the G5 died and the pain I had transferring my backed up iphoto library, I have decided that Mac pc's don't offer the flexibility I need, so the macbook pro is the at home web surfing machine. The real work is done on my PC. Devices, well windows 8 does look very promising but I expect it will be at least two years before I consider making the switch as my phone contract expires not long after the expected release of the iphone 5
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  15. #15
    GB1
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Yep, that rounded rectangle patent is unsettling.

    This was really a case about the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, not so much Apple or Samsung. The Patent Office is at a point where a) they are obviously granting crazy patents and b) their rules regarding what is statutory (patentable) are quite unclear and often violated by their own examiners.
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  16. #16
    Formerly Michael Fanelli, mwfanelli, mfa mwfanelli2's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    What no one has mentioned is that the patent infringements occurred with older Samsung devices, most of which have been replaced by newer models. To me, that shows that Samsung can do their own things when they want to. They just copied Apple to get a product to market faster. Regardless of how you feel about Apple, that is just slimy and really deserves to be punished.
    “Men never do evil so cheerfully and completely as when they do so from religious conviction.” — Blaise Pascal

  17. #17
    GB1
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by mwfanelli2 View Post
    What no one has mentioned is that the patent infringements occurred with older Samsung devices, most of which have been replaced by newer models. To me, that shows that Samsung can do their own things when they want to. They just copied Apple to get a product to market faster. Regardless of how you feel about Apple, that is just slimy and really deserves to be punished.
    There's an unwritten rule in art that artists don't copy others' work, and Apple's products do seem like art to me. This same rule doesn't apply to the commercial world, unfortunately, especially to companies like Samsung (and the Chinese in general).. they have no qualms at all about copying. And yeah, maybe this will force them to put together their own creative design team as Apple has?
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  18. #18
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by GB1 View Post
    There's an unwritten rule in art that artists don't copy others' work, and Apple's products do seem like art to me. This same rule doesn't apply to the commercial world, unfortunately, especially to companies like Samsung (and the Chinese in general).. they have no qualms at all about copying. And yeah, maybe this will force them to put together their own creative design team as Apple has?
    The LG Prada smartphone came out several months before the original iPhone. It looks very similar. You can see that everyone was moving in this direction. Apple did it better, especially with the iPhone 4. But since then the others have carried on innovating while Apple has stuck with the glass-and-metal look which is starting to look rather clunky compared with a Galaxy S3 (for example). I hope they come out with something new with the iPhone5

    Let's get are nationalities straight:

    - Samsung, LG, etc. are South Korean
    - the Chinese manufacture most of these things (including iPhone and iPad)
    - Google (supplier of Android, responsible for the look-and-feel of the smartphones) is American

    Apple are a good design house. Their products appeal to other good design houses (very difficult to get some of the Haute Couture people in Paris to accept to work on a PC). But I don't think that the Apple products are Art. And Apple have copied other people in the past (the XEROX Star machine was the origin of the Windows-Imaging-Mouse-Pointer system used in the Macintosh then in Windows). In computers its common practice.
    Charles

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  19. #19
    GB1
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais View Post
    The LG Prada smartphone came out several months before the original iPhone. It looks very similar. You can see that everyone was moving in this direction. Apple did it better, especially with the iPhone 4. But since then the others have carried on innovating while Apple has stuck with the glass-and-metal look which is starting to look rather clunky compared with a Galaxy S3 (for example). I hope they come out with something new with the iPhone5

    Let's get are nationalities straight:

    - Samsung, LG, etc. are South Korean
    - the Chinese manufacture most of these things (including iPhone and iPad)
    - Google (supplier of Android, responsible for the look-and-feel of the smartphones) is American

    Apple are a good design house. Their products appeal to other good design houses (very difficult to get some of the Haute Couture people in Paris to accept to work on a PC). But I don't think that the Apple products are Art. And Apple have copied other people in the past (the XEROX Star machine was the origin of the Windows-Imaging-Mouse-Pointer system used in the Macintosh then in Windows). In computers its common practice.
    Franglais, Yeah, I know that Samsung is Korean... I meant to say "plus the Chinese in general". But I would have to disagree that Apple products aren't artistic: indeed, I find their entire DNA heavily involved in art and design, not only shown in their hardware designs' simplicity (iMacs, iPhones, iPads, etc), but of course in their user interfaces, to which they are probably internationally recognized as the world's best. The Chinese simply *build* the design they're handed, to the specs they're told. Their produced products are of high quality, but that isn't design.

    I would agree that their basic iPhone design is starting to look clunky, and that it looks a lot like the LG Prada (however, since they came out within a few months of each other, I doubt Apple could have copied their design if they had even tried, as the shape was already baselined many months ahead of time).
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  20. #20
    Formerly Michael Fanelli, mwfanelli, mfa mwfanelli2's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    FWIW...

    And Apple have copied other people in the past (the XEROX Star machine was the origin of the Windows-Imaging-Mouse-Pointer system used in the Macintosh then in Windows). In computers its common practice.
    Apple WAS sued for this but Xerox waited too long and the statute of limitations kicked in. As I recall, the judge thought the case was solid but the time factor wasn't.
    “Men never do evil so cheerfully and completely as when they do so from religious conviction.” — Blaise Pascal

  21. #21
    Formerly Michael Fanelli, mwfanelli, mfa mwfanelli2's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Franglais View Post
    Apple won $1bn damages against Samsung for patents infringement on the iPhone. Things like having a rectangular telephone with round edges.
    Let's get it right:

    " But the jury rejected infringement claims based on patent D’889, which covers the iPad, and rejected eight of 13 claims under D’087 and which deals specifically with the rectangles-with-rounded-corners design of the iPhone (see the relevant sections of the jury verdict form below.)..."

    For a long discussion of the many media mistakes in the reporting, see:

    Pinch-to-Zoom and Rounded Rectangles: What the Jury Didn’t Say [Updated] | TechPinions
    “Men never do evil so cheerfully and completely as when they do so from religious conviction.” — Blaise Pascal

  22. #22
    Be serious Franglais's Avatar
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    Well spotted. But now I'm not clear on exactly what Samsung "copied". Things like the pinch and tap to enlarge are surely parts of the Android user interface? Why didn't they sue Google?
    Charles

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  23. #23
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    Re: Apple vs Samsung patents win in California

    The Palm webOS also used the pinch gesture... I assume the reason Apple didn't sue Palm (and later HP) is that, at the time, the patent application had not yet to be reviewed and awarded (the USPTO is backed up a couple years in some areas). I believe that the meanwhile it is legal to produce/implement the idea, up to the date of patent award, which at that time they must cease and desist (and webOS devices may have been off the market by then, anyhow ).
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