Anyone have any thoughtson DREAMWEAVER

[mjm]

LOL!

Mr. ACArmstrong, you are a perfect example of someone who doesnt know what is going on. Your page has 26 HTML errors. You have javascript within the page. Your URLs are not clean. You have "<%@LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" CODEPAGE="1252"%>" on the top of all pages. etc. etc. etc....

However, your site is pretty. If you are simply going after "pretty" webpages then listen to ACArmstrong. If you want something that is functional and will work for ALL browsers then you need to learn what you are doing.

[Asylum Steve]

mjm,

Personally, I think you're doing a disservice to Andy by suggesting he "doesn't know what's going on", or that his web site designs are simply "pretty".

Reaching these conclusions by simply noticing HTML or javascript errors on his pages is a sort of flawed logic. Few sites created with any editing program are perfect. Also, sites that show no errors in one browser may show a handful in another browser. It's almost unavoidable. Besides, the goal of dynamic and attractive web sites isn't just to be error free. Sometimes that's not even a big deal...

It only takes a glance at his web portfolio to realize he's a fairly talented site designer. From what I can see, his sites not only look good, but are very intuative and user friendly, too.

I'm pretty sure you misunderstood what Andy was trying to say in his post. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but IMO, he's NOT saying that using Dreamweaver or GoLive means you shouldn't learn coding...

Rather, he's inferring that buying such expensive and powerful web design software and using it ONLY for hand coded is rather silly, hugely ineffecient time-wise, and wastes maybe 80% of the program's capabilities. If so, I have to say I agree...

If one prefers to only hand code their entire web sites, IMO these programs are a complete waste of money. You can hand code for FREE on any text editor, and also download free FTP programs from the web.

As a fairly experienced web designer myself, I think it's safe to say the SMARTEST way to work with these programs is to take full advantage of the time saving "drag & drop" features, but also know coding and tweak and fine tune pages by hand. The two are not mutually exclusive...

BTW, in that sense I think his anologies were appropriate. Hand coding all the time in DW would indeed be like using a washboard and tub when you had a modern electric washer at your disposal...

[Peter_AUS]

I don't know what the problem is here MJM, but the topic is What are the Thoughts On Dreamweaver. Not Pick My Website Coding To Pieces.

If you look at all the websites on the Internet, I am sure that you could probably pick something wrong with each and everyone of the them.

People code differently, so by hand, some by pencil and paper, some by braille as well (althought that is hard to get the dots to join up).

The point is, DW is probably the most widely used program for website design and that was the point of the discussion and I would like to keep that topic as the main focal point. Not whether someone code is up to someone elses standards. If it gets the job done for that person, then leave it alone.

Natalie has asked the question and was greatful for the replies, what she does with that info is up to her.

Hand coding is fine for those that have the brain for the coding, yes I know it is just like setting up a newspaper (which is where it came from in the first place), but not everyone is that interlectually challanged are they.

I don't profess to be an expert in web design, far from it, but I do know a lot about hardware and software and what is popular and what isn't.

So lets all just move one please.

[Asylum Steve]

Peter, I feel guilty posting this right after your comment about staying on topic, but I just wanted to tell you that I picked up a BRAILLE pc font off the web last week. Seeing how you brought it up...

Anyway, I just thought it was too funny. I fully plan on using some on my site, as joke of course...

BTW, our local library has a small braille sign by one of the entrances, but they've covered it with a piece of acrylic to protect it from the weather. I kid you not, and this too I find hysterical...

[mjm]

ok, maybe i was a little harsh. how about this...

using dreamweaver is like using the fully automatic settings on your camera. sure it works, but the results aren't that great.

BTW, the HTML errors I was referring to are from the W3C.

[Peter_AUS]

Hey MJM, just because it doesn't meet W3C conventions doesn't always mean they are completely right. Remember that is a group of people that come together and decide on what the rest of the world should do with coding, do you think they actually all agree with each other as well, don't think so.

If someone has code errors, sure let them know and maybe example of how it is an error, let others learn instead of just stating something without maybe helping. That is the idea of this forum and why I for one pushed to have it included here in the Photography site and not on the Computer site as I thought it was more relevant to this site than the other.

Dreamweaver isn't like using your camera in auto mode,you still have full control over everything if you want it, I find it good to see what the coding is and have developed my skills more and more as I use it, that way. If Dreamweaver wasn't a good program do you think it would still be around, a bit like Adobe products, they do the job they were intended to do, website development program by them was just another way of trying to get an edge. Has it worked, maybe yes maybe no, there are many many Dreamweaver users around the world who are happy little customers.

[natatbeach]

I agree..I have no intentions of "learning" the easiest route and staying there. I need the fastest way to set up a basic product/info site and then try to to take a class.

[Peter_AUS]

Not off topic Steve, it was all a little tongue in cheeck about the braille. Interesting what one comes up with on the net isn't it. Hows the computer going having seen any comments lately, is it fixed now.

Can they still read the Braille under the Acrylic what I would be more interested in knowing, how do they know the sign would be there anyway.

[Asylum Steve]

I decided to simply replace the hard drive with two larger ones. The new motherboard/cpu as well as a host of other upgrades will have to wait until summer...

[Peter_AUS]

No the feeling although finances have eased off a little for me. I'm actually not panicking now. I hope it just gets better and better, might get our lives back a bit.

[ACArmstrong]

First, thank you Peter and Steve...

And Steve, you hit the nail on the head. That was my point completely.

MJM - we'll agree to disagree on this one. I've never cared much for W3C standards, because it doesn't mean anything to the average web user. I build sites that are aesthetically pleasing and are easy to use. I build them with one goal in mind - getting a companies message to its users. I test on two levels of web browsers to make sure the features work for about 90% of people playing on the web these days. I don't care whether or not it meets W3C standards as long as its useful to my clients and the people who browse the web sites I've built.

It always makes me laugh when someone has to run a W3C scan to find "errors" on a site. My question always is, "How many did you find BEFORE you ran the scan?"

[mjm]

Well, would you like to have a site that works for 90% of people or 99% of people (there is ALWAYS something that doesn't work quite right)? I am sure if you were managing a an ecommerce site and the owners made 90% of what they could possibly make that would be OK with them.

Sure the W3C doesn't mean anything to an average user. And if that is all you care about then that is great. However, as things change people will be accessing your site using different devices (ie. Cell Phones, PDAs, etc.). As this picks up, your customers will ask "why doesn't my site work on my cell phone?" and you will have a hell of a time explaining that to an average user.

To answer this, "How many did you find BEFORE you ran the scan?" You have "<%@LANGUAGE="VBSCRIPT" CODEPAGE="1252"%>" on top of all your pages. Even Google thinks so: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...2F&btnG=Search