Reliable Mail-Order Lab

[Paul in OKC]

Today I looked at a 20 X 30 print at my local photo shop here in OKC. I was very disappointed. The colors were garish, harsh, and mottled. I was told that the lab thought the water in the picture should be bluer, so they "turned up the dial" on that color. Does anyone know of a mail-order lab that does good work? What about digital? Can they handle that? Can you just E-mail your picture file to them as an attachment? I have just about had it with my local labs. Any suggestions? Any mail-order labs that are reliable?

[92135011]

before you do any large custom print, you should bring in a smaller print to tell them what you like. Even the best pro lab cannot visualize what you see in your world. If you mail order, there is no way you can tell them exactly what you want. Plus a 20x30 print is heavy and expensive to ship. I would do it at a local prolab

[Olive]

I just switched to digital and have not used this site. However, my sister-in-law uses them quite frequently and is very impressed with the company. It is called White House Custom Colour and the website is www.whcc.com Let me know how you like it! I'll be needing it soon. Good luck
Hilary

[another view]

Are you starting with a negative, slide or digital file? I assume you're having a digital print made as the end result. Need to know this first...

I agree that a smaller print as a proof is the best way to start. I'd go with an 8x10, you can see detail easier than in a 4x6 and they're still inexpensive. Turning up the blue will affect every color in the print, not just the lake or any other blues. If you're familiar with shooting digital, it would be like putting the wrong white balance on a shot.

I've had big prints done locally on an Epson 9600, but lately been using Mpix.com. I haven't sent them any big prints yet but so far I've been impressed with them. They also offer Kodak Metallic paper which looks great with some shots. Heard good things about WHCC but no experience with them personally.

[Paul in OKC]

Thanks for your input. When I took the negative in, I did include a 4X6 guide print. After they re-did it, it was OK (sharper and colors accurate. In their defense, yesterday I took two negatives in (with guide prints) and the enlargements that I received were BETTER than the guide print. I think a lot of it is who runs the machine the day your print is done. If it is some part-time bubblegummer, you are in big trouble. Again, I really appreciate your comments.

[another view]

I think a lot of it is who runs the machine the day your print is done.

Bingo. For consistent results for a digital print, have a high-quality scan made of the image (and do any Photoshop work) then always print from that digital file, re-sizing as necessary. Very few labs make optical (darkroom) enlargements anymore so I'm sure it's a digital print that you're getting. They're scanning the negative every time you bring it to them, and that's where the problem is.

You could have the same problems with an optical enlargement, but it's pretty rare to find a place that does them anymore - you'll have to look for it. Chances are they'll be a pretty good lab, but it's the person making the lab that makes the difference.

With quality labs, you're paying for consistency. One print shouldn't come back any sharper than the other one (assuming same size), they should always be sharp. The print shouldn't come back "better" than the guide print - it should come back the same. If it's not the same, then why do they want a guide print?

Photoshop has a steep learning curve, but it will definately be worth it - I'm guessing you're not very experienced with it (correct me if I'm wrong). Try Photoshop Elements for under $100 and start playing around with it. Have a scan made in the highest resolution that they will do (4000-5000 dpi is good for 35mm) and have them save it as a TIFF file on a CD. Then do your Photoshop magic, and all your prints will be consistent.

[Chunk]

Steve, I've been wondering about color set up for printing. Should the setup described in White House' site be what is generally used for submitting digital files for printing?
http://www.whcc.com/pricing/WHCC_2005_Pricing.pdf

[another view]

Chunk, this looks pretty good and standard for any place.

300ppi (PPI is the printed equivalent to the DPI you see on a monitor) is a good conservative starting point. With 8x10's and smaller, the file size isn't big enough to worry about, so just go ahead and use it. With bigger prints, I usually use 240 on the Epson 9600 - but that's the only way I've had big prints done.

I use stair-step interpolation in Photoshop (increase by 10% several times until you get the file size). There are a lot of ways to do it, and some people say it's not even necessary to do it, but this works for me.

Level 10 compression? I've always used Level 12 (Level 8 when on the web) just to be safe, but they're probably right - they know what they're doing!

sRGB is important. I don't know of any place (I'm sure there are some though) that uses Adobe RGB profiles, so if you're sending them an Adobe RGB file your print will look a little strange. Adobe RGB has it's benefits, but you probably should be doing your own printing to take full advantage of it - and definately calibrate your monitor too! Calibrating made my life easier; I do the monitor only and it's not that expensive ($249 for Monaco Optix XR, but they usually run rebates). This is one of the units they and several other places recommend. I got mine at a show for about $145 - so they are discounted pretty heavily from time to time.

Greyscale looks flat - the new issue of Popular Photography shows an example of this in their Photoshop column. Not sure what month it is but came in the mail this week. (I know, I read that one... ). I use the Channel Mixer in Photoshop to make B&W files and then keep them saved as RGB.

8 bits per channel - it will have to be this bit depth (versus 16 bit) to be a JPEG anyway.

Cropped to exact print size - good advice so you know what the print will look like. DSLR's use a 1:2 ratio, so a 4x6 is full frame but an 8x10 is not. I know you understand this but a lot of people don't. An 8x10 will lose a total of 2" across the long side because full frame would be 8x12. You'll probably lose 1" off each side if you don't specify, but if you do your own 8x10 crop then you can cut 1/4" off one side and 1-3/4" off the other, etc - whatever you want. That's the key, tell them what you want rather than have the machine decide.

Other than the Compression Level at 12, this is how I send my files to Mpix, or have them done locally. I wouldn't hesitate to use a level of 10 since they recommend it though. Their prices are about the same as Mpix, but the paper choices are different. Fuji Lustre and Glossy that they use looks great, and Kodak Metallic is really neat for some shots. It almost looks like a slide sitting on a light box. If you go to Mpix.com they will send you a sample of the papers they use (all Kodak) - it's an outdoor portrait which probably isn't the best choice for Metallic, but you get the idea of what it looks like.

[Chunk]

Thanks for the in depth reply, Steve, Ya taught me some stuff. Can an LCD be calibrated? I know things look pretty ragged on them but there are times when I'd like to get things adjusted without going to a monitor.

[another view]

Can an LCD be calibrated?

Glad to help, Chunk. An LCD can be calibrated. I/m pretty sure that the Optix XR will do either but not positive - I only have a CRT. Used to be that you needed a separate one for LCD, but I don't think that's the case anymore. I thought I knew how to eyeball in some compensation to make my prints look right and actually got fairly close. Using this got it better than I think I ever could have, and it's consistent.

Some versions of Photoshop (I think 5 and up, not sure on Elements) have Adobe Gamma, which is a simple calibration program that you do by eye. I've never tried it myself, but it's supposed to get you in the ballpark - much better than what I was using. If you've already got that software, then it's free! Go to Settings > Control Panel and look for Adobe Gamma. It might be under Display in Settings - I have PS on my other computer so I can't check right now. This is assuming Windows.

One thing to realize is that you should calibrate your monitor in the light that you'll be working in. If it's calibrated for middle of the day, no artificial lights - just window light, then it's not calibrated for late at night with just incandescent or whatever lights you're working under. I'm not perfect with this, and it's still pretty close - but one way to reduce any variables is to make the room dark and do PS work all the time that way.