Photo-Flo

[Mucus]

In my photo class we use this substance called photo-flo
It is used in the treatment of negatives, after the fixer and final wash.
They say that we SHOULD use this stuff but it always gives me cloudy negatives. Anybody know bout this stuff?

[Axle]

I personally have never used it but i did some searching on the internet about this problem of yours and have come up with this:

Glen Johnson off the photo.net forums You can use all the photo-flo you want, but if you use it with the tap water here in Dayton, you'll end up with a cloud of white precipitate coating your film. The water here is HARD. Everyone I know at least uses distilled water for their final rinse. The photo-flo prevents spotting, but it doesn't prevent sheeting. The disolved solids have to go somewhere. They don't leave the suface by evaporation.

[Mucus]

so most don't use photo-flo

i haven't used before this class either

[Max P D]

In my photo class we use this substance called photo-flo
It is used in the treatment of negatives, after the fixer and final wash.
They say that we SHOULD use this stuff but it always gives me cloudy negatives. Anybody know bout this stuff?

Just out of curiosity, HOW MUCH photo-flo are you using? You only need a drop or two for a few rolls.

Are you using what's already mixed-up in the lab? Has it expired? Is it contaminated with another solution?

I've had a few photo classes where other students weren't too concerned about pouring the used solution back into the right jug...

[Mucus]

premixed
it's in a gatorade-jug style container
we don't recylce it, just pour it down the drains
but we are told to use 20 OUNCES of the stuff

[Max P D]

premixed
it's in a gatorade-jug style container
we don't recylce it, just pour it down the drains
but we are told to use 20 OUNCES of the stuff

Hmm, that sounds excessive.

Let me get this straight - you are told to use 20 ounces of photo-flo, mixed with HOW MUCH water?

You mentioned a gatorade jug - even still - 20 oz. of P-F mixed with, say, a gallon of water (I doubt Gatorade even comes in that big a jug) seems too much...:nono:

I'm gonna have to do some Googling...

[Mucus]

i'm not going to be using the stuff...it really makes my negs cloudy, and i HATE that... sometimes it's a nice effect...

but yeah, they tell us 20 ounces of premixed photo-flo
last time i only used about 5, and my negs came out better...

what is this stuff supposed to do anyway? I'm told that it helps with preserving the negs

[another view]

I tried it when I was doing b&w work, but had the same problem. I ended up using only distilled water for rinsing (actually for everything) with something I read about from Ilford. Fill the container, agitate five times and dump it. Then refill and agitate 10 times, finally refill and agitate 20 times. Worked just fine for me.

[Mucus]

you think the distilled water is better than tap?
I would assume that to be correct...but in a community lab, I don't think I'd be too happy bringing it in all the time...even if a jug only costs 83 cents

[Max P D]

According to the Kodak pdf, it's a 1 to 20 ratio, or one ounce of photo flo to 20 ounces of water.

Whoa, was there a possible mix-up on the 1:20 ratio versus the 20-ounces part?

I can understand how that might happen.

Happy shootin'

[Max P D]

you think the distilled water is better than tap?
I would assume that to be correct...but in a community lab, I don't think I'd be too happy bringing it in all the time...even if a jug only costs 83 cents

FWIW, some photogs recommend using Photo Flo with distilled water.

Kodak calls Photo Flo a "drying agent" while some photo-suppliers call it a "wetting agent"....:crazy:

[Mucus]

it's a drying agent as far as i can figure.

what's fwiw?

[Max P D]

it's a drying agent as far as i can figure.

what's fwiw?

FWIW = For What It's Worth

[Max P D]

Was there a possible mix-up with the 1:20 ratio versus the 20-ounces part?:idea:

[Mucus]

ohhhhhh...

...photo-flo not a preserving agent? just a drying agent?
isn't that what the dryers are for?

[Max P D]

...
we don't recylce it, just pour it down the drain...

Reminds me of the old Drain-O joke...

In case you haven't heard it, you buy something to pour down the drain...

[Mucus]

yeah, that's how i intended people to take it...

anyway

if i just leave my negatives without photo-flo, they are just fine ci?
so then what is photo-flo doing?

[livin4lax09]

I use about 2 drops for every roll of film. No cloudy negatives here, but I am getting water spots, which is quite annoying.

[mjs1973]

From what I remember of my photo class, the only thing that photo-flo does, it helps prevent water spots on your film when it's dried. If it's giving you problems, then don't use it. The worst thing that's going to happen is you will end up with water spots on your negs. Those can be cleaned off pretty easily. Sure, it's an extra step, but at least your negs wont be cloudy. Or you could follow Steve's advice and use distilled water. I don't think distilled water leaves spots when it dries, but I could be wrong.

[megan]

I actually use photoflo all the time with my negs. I don't use a communal lab, though. I add a few drops to my filled tank (I develop 3 120 rolls in one shot) and agitate for 30 seconds. I've never had a problem with a white film - but I'm in NYC. I would follow the suggestions above and try distilled water, and if you can, add the undiluted photo flo straight from the original Kodak container.

[zrfraser]

Ok for my 2 cents. I work in my colleges darkroom and a girl was a having the same trouble. I asked her about all her steps and it seemed fine. I then asked about her photo-flo (aristaflo) usage and found the culprit. She was using way to much and not agitating at all. I told her to use one or two drops of the agent and agitate vigoursly for about 90 seconds. Then we took a squeege and dried them and hung them at a diagonal in the drying closet. There was no more cloudiness. All the photo flo does is help dry the film before hard water deposits form. If you get deposits then use a little baby oil on the emulsion side of the film with a little lens cleaning cloth.

Hope this helps

Z

[drew2143]

Ok, here's the deal from what i've been told. Photo flow IS for clearing up water spots on negative film. However, if you squegee your film you shouldn't have a problem with water spots. Besides, photoflow is not needed for negative film. I know alot of people and kodak say it is but from what i've heard the films so plasticy it doesn't effect it. We just stopped using photoflow last year in the labs and have had great results. P.S. they make a special formula to clean negatives with.

[Franglais]

Ok, here's the deal from what i've been told. Photo flow IS for clearing up water spots on negative film. However, if you squegee your film you shouldn't have a problem with water spots. Besides, photoflow is not needed for negative film. I know alot of people and kodak say it is but from what i've heard the films so plasticy it doesn't effect it. We just stopped using photoflow last year in the labs and have had great results. P.S. they make a special formula to clean negatives with.

My understanding is that photo flow is similar to the liquid detergent that you use to wash your dishes. All it does is remove the surface tension of the water that remains on your film after wiping off.

Normally the water that's left will form big drops on the surface of your film. If you live in a "hard" water area with lots of minerals dissolved in the water, these things will precipitate out as the water evaporates and leave you with a white mark on your film (positive or negative).

If you use distilled water for washing then you don't get the minerals.

If you use Photo Flo it destroys the surface tension of the water so it makes a thin even layer on the film instead of collecting into drops. When the water evaporates the minerals still precipitate out but they're spread more evenly so you don't notice them.

I used to use 2 drops of Photo Flo for a 600ml tank (2 24x36 films) but I increased it to 5 because I live in a hard water area. I never heard of Photo Flo making film cloudy.

Charles

[another view]

Normally the water that's left will form big drops on the surface of your film. If you live in a "hard" water area with lots of minerals dissolved in the water, these things will precipitate out as the water evaporates and leave you with a white mark on your film (positive or negative).

If you use distilled water for washing then you don't get the minerals.

That's exactly why I used distilled water. I "squeeged" my negs between my index and middle fingers before I hung them in the shower to dry. Not a perfect setup but it worked pretty well.

[freygr]

it's a drying agent as far as i can figure.

what's fwiw?

Photo Flow is a wetting agent. It's used to prevent spotting, water drops forming on the drying film after the final rinsing. You take the negatives after the final rinsing and dip them in the photo flow solution then let them dry.