panorama

[phish123]

I'm having trouble getting some shots for a panoramic view in my living room. I am not using a tripod but have used basicly everything else. From the floor, the a table, a swivel chair, and even myown hands. It never seems to match up on photoshop. I have looked up tips for panoramic views and know that i must overlap around 30 to 50 perent but they still wont match up. Im starting to think that a tripod still wont help. So please, someone help me out.


Matt

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

When you do pano shots - make sure the focus is set to manual - once you get it set - DO NOT MOVE IT. Same with exposure - set it to manual - once you get it set - DO NOT MOVE IT.

Now you need to rotate your camera from the focal plane of the camera. Then your images should line up ....

Or do your settings - standard for pano shots - makes sure the focal point and exposure is consistent throughout your shots. then google "autostitch" and let that stitch your shots together -

default settings makes a small pano so go in and edit the options to get a bigger output file.I use it - its FREE and works awesome! Every so often it will say the license has expired - just go and get a new version of it.

hope this helps

[Frog]

I am not using a tripod That answers your question.

[fx101]

I am not using a tripod That answers your question.

Lol, Frog, no it doesn't.

Are you trying to line up your images in photoshop???

In order to get a good panorama, you need pano-stitching software like panorama tools (the ptgui is really easy to use). This will ensure a correctly warped image since your lens will introduce perspective distortion of some sort. If you want a good panorama in a confined space like a living room it's essential that you have a tripod with a panoramic head that'll rotate about the nodal point (point and shoot cameras don't really have this problem).

[SmartWombat]

I have got panoramas without a tripod just fine.
It's not necessary to use a tripod, but it makes it a lot easier.

The key is to make everything under your control.
Fixed exposure means you need manual controls, or really even lighting.
Fixed focus means manual focus, or you need your subject at the same distance all the time, so that refocussing isn't critical.
Don't touch the zoom while you're shooting either.

Follow that then you should be able to get shots like this by hand:

[phish123]

i still can't get it to work. I have not used a tripod yet but i have carefully taken shots from my hands, table, chairs, etc. They still wont match up on photoshop. All of my settings are off auto (exposure, focus).
Please help

[SmartWombat]

Then please post some photos as attachments in a reply, so we look and see why they won't work.

[Lori11]

What kind of camera are you using?

[shootme]

Great dialog, now I know the essence for taking panoramic shots, thanks for all the tips. Agree post some shots so there is a visual of the problem.

Wombat I love your shots above.

[SmartWombat]

Thanks.
The key for me is not to use too many shots.
If you're trying for a 360 degree panorama then it's going to end up like a long thin ribbon.
While they can be stunning printed, viewing them on-screen is a nightmare.

Also without a tripod you're likely to shoot some shots too high or too low, and that can lead to the panorama software chopping the top or bottom off every other photograph which also makes your panorama long and thin.

So I find pasting hand-held shots far easier with only two or three images - there's less opportunity for me to make a mistake.

[fx101]

Thanks.
Also without a tripod you're likely to shoot some shots too high or too low, and that can lead to the panorama software chopping the top or bottom off every other photograph which also makes your panorama long and thin.

So I find pasting hand-held shots far easier with only two or three images - there's less opportunity for me to make a mistake.

Herein lies the problem. The thread leads me to believe that the OP is not using panorama software but instead merely lining up the images in photoshop. Remember that for images to line up perfectly like this (especially in a room) you need to have perfectly rectilinear (non distorted) images and rotate the camera perfectly around the nodal point. Panorama software actually warps the images to the desired projection (usually rectilinear) and gets them to line up. Try a trial of ptgui and see how it works for you.

FYI it's quite possible to make a handheld panorama from more than 3 pictures. Here's a panorama with 62 images, handheld using my 300mm f/2.8 at f/8 and ISO 400. To do this, just set your camera to burst at 1/1100s or faster (to freeze the panning motion) and pan with your hands while your camera fires away. My D200 does 5.2fps which is more than enough.


The OP should easily be able to make a handheld panorama, he just needs the right software.

[SmartWombat]

I'm using either the software that came with the Canon - Photostitch.
Or using PhotoShop's photomerge feature (File, Automate, Photomerge).

Both adjust the image warping for the panorama.

But I don't trust the software alignment, I always slide them about by hand and make my own decision on which one is on top, which one underneath, and how they align.
Sometimes changing the order I put them together makes a huge difference to the result.

[fx101]

I'm using either the software that came with the Canon - Photostitch.
Or using PhotoShop's photomerge feature (File, Automate, Photomerge).

Both adjust the image warping for the panorama.

But I don't trust the software alignment, I always slide them about by hand and make my own decision on which one is on top, which one underneath, and how they align.
Sometimes changing the order I put them together makes a huge difference to the result.

Yes but I have the feeling that the original poster is just lining the images up side by side without using "photomerge." That can account for the images not "lining up"

[freygr]

If you are trying to make a panorama of your living room you have to rotate the camera around the nodal point of it's lens to prevent parallax, close and far objects not lining up. With outdoor panoramas like SmartWombat and fx101 there is not anything close up, and like them I've taken many out door panoramas hand held and with a tripod. But using Photoshop to make panoramas is very time comsuming. I use Panorama Factory and it's not too costly or you can purchase many other programs: http://www.panoguide.com/products/

[fx101]

If you are trying to make a panorama of your living room you have to rotate the camera around the nodal point of it's lens to prevent parallax, close and far objects not lining up. With outdoor panoramas like SmartWombat and fx101 there is not anything close up, and like them I've taken many out door panoramas hand held and with a tripod. But using Photoshop to make panoramas is very time comsuming. I use Panorama Factory and it's not too costly or you can purchase many other programs: http://www.panoguide.com/products/

Hence the aforementioned pano-head. I don't know what kind of camera the OP is using though. If it is a rather compact P&S, the parallax error will be unnoticeable if it is just mounted on the tripod. With a DSLR a pano-head (I use the nodal ninja type) you can set your camera/lens combo up for true nodal rotation. Nonetheless, you still at least need to automerge, if not use dedicated software. Merely lining up the images will do nothing.

[phish123]

ok sorry im very confused. I tried looking online on how to find the nodal point and it all seems so confusing. I read that you need a pano-head but i thought you could also shoot a panoramic handheld. please help me out

Thanks

[fx101]

ok sorry im very confused. I tried looking online on how to find the nodal point and it all seems so confusing. I read that you need a pano-head but i thought you could also shoot a panoramic handheld. please help me out

Thanks

OK, so according to your profile you're using a point and shoot. If it's a really compact one, then you don't need a pano head. If it's a bit larger, then what happens is that the point where the light focuses will rotate around a circle rather than a point, so there will be perspective errors called parallax. The nodal point is the point from where you would see the image if you used your eyes instead of the camera. This must rotate around a point instead of a circle to avoid strange parallax in confined quarters. Handheld panoramas are only possible outdoors in wide open spaces.

[Frog]

Ok! I'm as confused as phish but let me see if I have it straight.

Outdoors possible without tripod?
Indoors you really need a tripod?

[phish123]

i still dont understand how you find it. I thought you just put the camera on a tripod and level it out.

[fx101]

Ok! I'm as confused as phish but let me see if I have it straight.

Outdoors possible without tripod?
Indoors you really need a tripod?

Imagine you have a pole one inch in front of you. On the left side of the pole is red, on the right side is blue, and on the front is green. Now close one eye. Imagine that the eye is one inch in front of the pole and perfectly centered on the pole such that you only see green. Now turn your head left and right. Since your eyes move further left and right of the pole, you'll see a bit of red and a bit of blue that you wouldn't see ordinarily. If you try the same thing but move your eyes instead of your head, then you will only see green although the pole will be in the left or right side of your vision depending on which way you look.

With a camera, this ability to see a different perspective of the pole (anything but the green) is called parallax. Your eyes are about 8cm in front of your neck, the axis about which you turn your head, and about 13cm from your spine. Hence, when you turn your head, your eyes physically move left or right of where they were originally. When only your eyes move, the perspective shift is far less because the circle about which the focal point (the cornea) rotates is a lot smaller. You don't want a circle of rotation, you want a point. That is, you want the smallest circle of rotation possible.

Now imagine that pole was half a kilometer away, and it was a lot thicker so you could see it. If you moved your head, you would not see red or green. With your eyes, the same is true. This is because the perspective shift is far less at a distance (the angle of deflection decreases). This is why outdoors when you have objects far away it doesn't really matter if you use a pano-head or not, it's when you have close objects that it does matter. With a small point and shoot, the circle in which the focal point (the point from which you would have to locate your eye to replicate the image on the camera) moves in relation to the axis of rotation (the tripod) is minute. Thus, a panoramic head that centers the nodal point over the tripod axis is not really necessary. With an SLR where the nodal point is farther away from the tripod rotation axis, it becomes far more necessary. Generally indoors the subjects are closer, this is why I said a pano head is essential for indoor panoramas. Outdoors if you have close objects, a panohead is equally essential.

So how do you find the nodal point? You line three lamps up, in a straight line such that you only see the first lamp (the rest are behind). You take pictures left and right. If you can see the other lamps, there is parallax error. Move the camera back on the tripod head. Try again. When you can pan the camera and take a picture without seeing the other lamps, you have the nodal point centered over the tripod axis of rotation.

Do you understand the perspective/parallax error more now? The nodal point can be found using the technique I described, although you will need a panoramic tripod head to do this.

[phish123]

how would you use a panoramic head then doing it handheld?

[WsW-WYATT-EARP]

google "AUTOSTITCH" - download it - run your jpgs through it and enjoy the pano it creates for you . you will be unable to handhold and stitch without some major editing to correct the distortion. The software is available - for FREE no less - use it and be happy

[freygr]

how would you use a panoramic head then doing it handheld?

Even using a PS you should use a tripod indoors. Unless you are planing to do a spherical view you don't need any thing fancy. Use a TP or paper towel tube in your field of view aligned so you can see an object through the tube. If you swing the camera the object you see in the tube should not move. If the object moves allot the panorama will have problems being stitched due to to much parallax error.

Doing a panorama of your living room hand held with out a tripod is wish for a poor quality panorama. Now at a scenic view point it will not be a problem as the parallax error will not be noticeable.

Don't get me wrong, if can be done. Another factor is the length of the lens, the long the lens the less parallax error there will be, but to many photos will crash the computer as you will run out of memory!

[phish123]

i dont understand how you physically find the nodal point if your in any position. So do you have to find it once or find it before every shot. and one more thing, if i have the camera, tripod, and pano-head, am i set? or do I need more?

[freygr]

i dont understand how you physically find the nodal point if your in any position. So do you have to find it once or find it before every shot. and one more thing, if i have the camera, tripod, and pano-head, am i set? or do I need more?

There are different panorama heads. For a stright single row panorama you only need a two axis panorama head, for a multiple row panorama you will need a three axis panorama head. A two axis it is possible to make (home made), but the three axis panorama head unless you have access to a machine shop or a machinist it's simpler to purchase a cheep one one line, I looked online a few months ago and a three axis panorama head (all plastic constriction) starts about $159 USD. Two axis attachments (plastic again) start about $20 USD.

To set it up you have to position the lens on the axis of rotation, lens center over the tripods column. Next you have to set up on a flat surface bottles or chest pieces. You move the camera forward and back on the panorama mount until the near and far objects do not change positions when you pan the camera.