No credit/recourse for returned lens....

[Liz]

This is an update on the Canon 24-105 L IS lens I received (as posted a week ago) in a damaged UPS box - and damaged inside Canon box.

UPS picked the lens up to assess it. I don't know how UPS will determine if the IS works. I explained it all to them.

The dealer - Badger Graphics has been unco-operative and will not give me any information. Initially I was told it was between UPS and me - then they said they would take responsibility since they paid the insurance and would reimburse me when they get a check from UPS.

Today I called Badger for the status. I told them since their return policy is only 7 days, and it is past, how will they handle this if UPS refuses to pay them. They said I had to wait until they hear from UPS, then they will tell me. I told them I need to know if I am going to get credit for this lens. Again, the man said "you have to wait and we'll just take one step at a time." I've never been treated like this from any dealer - they aren't even nice over the phone. They are treating me like it is my fault the box is damaged.

Last week my credit card company assured me they would put a temporary credit on the money, and they would work it out with the dealer. They said I didn't have to do anything except fill out the form - and that my "return period" automatically doubles with this card. I called the ccc today only to find out the "rep" misinformed me, that I don't have extra time on the return, and that they may not even keep the temporary credit on the account - that the person I spoke to was from customer service and didn't know what he was talking about. The woman said, "this is a good lesson for us" but was no help to me either.

Now what do I do? I guess wait - hope and pray - that UPS reimburses them so I get credit. Who knows what they will do if UPS says the lens is fine, even though the box is a mess.

What should I do if they refuse to take the lens back because UPS determines it is ok?

Thanks for any help. Sorry if this is a rant.

Liz

[Photo-John]

The first thing you do now is make a post on the Dealer Feedback forum about the dealer and make sure they know about it. The Internet has made all consumers a tiny bit more powerful.

[Liz]

The first thing you do now is make a post on the Dealer Feedback forum about the dealer and make sure they know about it.

Make sure the dealer knows about it? How do I do that?

Thanks

Liz

[another view]

Happy 2000th post, sorry it was about this...

Post in dealer feedback, then email them a link to this forum. Feel free to tell them you're a moderator at this site too.

Other than this, I really don't know what to tell you other than waiting and crossing your fingers. Hopefully some others will have more experience with this. The one thing that will help is to have a paper trail. Copies of letters and emails written are going to be better than phone calls.

I'm not sure if contacting the credit card company by email is an option, but it should work with the camera store. Have the phone conversation, then email them with "per our conversation, we said... and you agreed to do this... if you believe there are any discrepancies with this message, reply immediately...". People can "conveniently" forget last week's conversation, and imagine what six months will do.

I deal with work-related problems this way, and save a copy of everything. Heck, I don't know what I said six months ago when someone's trying to dispute a bill. I send an email, then go into the "Sent Items" folder and print a copy from there. Doing it this way will show who it went to and when.

[JSPhoto]

Liz,

I would also check that dealer out and see if the BBB has any complaints about them on the BBB website. You can also file a complaint with the BBB (don't forget to do one on UPS too!). You can also check with the attorney general for the state where the dealer is located, and if needed file a complaint through them too.

My question is, how can UPS determine if the lens is damaged? Last I knew they were not experts on cameras and lenses.....

Good luck Liz!

JS

[Liz]

Thanks Steve. I posted in Dealer Feedback - but I'll wait to send them to this website - as I don't want to aggravate the situation until I find out if they're going to credit my account.

Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it. I basically have documented the conversations with Badger and UPS. Hopefully it will all just work out.

Liz

Happy 2000th post, sorry it was about this...

Post in dealer feedback, then email them a link to this forum. Feel free to tell them you're a moderator at this site too.

Other than this, I really don't know what to tell you other than waiting and crossing your fingers. Hopefully some others will have more experience with this. The one thing that will help is to have a paper trail. Copies of letters and emails written are going to be better than phone calls.

I'm not sure if contacting the credit card company by email is an option, but it should work with the camera store. Have the phone conversation, then email them with "per our conversation, we said... and you agreed to do this... if you believe there are any discrepancies with this message, reply immediately...". People can "conveniently" forget last week's conversation, and imagine what six months will do.

I deal with work-related problems this way, and save a copy of everything. Heck, I don't know what I said six months ago when someone's trying to dispute a bill. I send an email, then go into the "Sent Items" folder and print a copy from there. Doing it this way will show who it went to and when.

[Liz]

JS - how do I check the dealer out at the BBB? I doubt if they have a problem because they are a small dealer in a small town. I wish I hadn't found them!

My question is, how can UPS determine if the lens is damaged? Last I knew they were not experts on cameras and lenses.....

That is exactly my question - and why I explained to 2 people at UPS that it is an "inside the lens" problem - if there is a problem. This is also why I'm afraid they won't pay the dealer because the outside of the lens looks fine/new.

Liz

Liz,

I would also check that dealer out and see if the BBB has any complaints about them on the BBB website. You can also file a complaint with the BBB (don't forget to do one on UPS too!). You can also check with the attorney general for the state where the dealer is located, and if needed file a complaint through them too.


Good luck Liz!

JS

[Peter_AUS]

Liz,

I hope this does work out positive for you.

I think I would be ringing Canon USA and discussing this with them as well from their point of view and possiblities that the Lens could have been damaged internally and see what advice they might have for you as well. They may be able to intervene with the Camera Store and advise them that it should be accepted as a return and then checked by Canon as well, as really they would be the only ones (their Technical Area) who would be able to asscertain if there is any internal damage to IS and lenses as well.

Basically I hope you took some photographs of the damaged box and how you received it, and documented this visually as well to cover yourself.

We all here know how you treat your equipment with kid gloves but you are dealing with things that are beyond your control. Having documented visual evidence would in this case help I think.

The Credit Card Companies reaction and conflicting advice, I actual expected, as this sort of thing has happened to me (conflicting advice I mean), and not having evidentary proof didn't help me, as it was my word against theirs and who are they going to believe.

I really do hope this works out and you don't end up with two lenses and two charges on your Credit Card.

Maybe returning the one to B&H and awaiting this outcome might not be such a bad thing to consider in the short/long term.

Just a thought.

[Liz]

I think I would be ringing Canon USA and discussing this with them as well from their point of view and possiblities that the Lens could have been damaged internally and see what advice they might have for you as well. They may be able to intervene with the Camera Store and advise them that it should be accepted as a return and then checked by Canon as well, as really they would be the only ones (their Technical Area) who would be able to asscertain if there is any internal damage to IS and lenses as well.

Peter, this sounds like something I'd like to do. However, it would also mean that if UPS doesn't give the dealer any money, they will probably return it to Canon as a "defective" lens to get some money there. If Canon is aware of the problem, and especially if they contact the dealer, they won't credit them. This might ruin my chances for getting credit myself. I think my best bet is to wait - then if the dealer refuses to credit me, I can call Canon.

Basically I hope you took some photographs of the damaged box and how you received it, and documented this visually as well to cover yourself.

Actually I didn't - sorry to say.

The Credit Card Companies reaction and conflicting advice, I actual expected, as this sort of thing has happened to me (conflicting advice I mean), and not having evidentary proof didn't help me, as it was my word against theirs and who are they going to believe.

I was surprised, but shouldn't have been. I thought it was too good to be true. The good news is that they will leave the credit on the account for the next 2 weeks until I fill out their forms and return them. I don't even have them yet.

I really do hope this works out and you don't end up with two lenses and two charges on your Credit Card.


I'm with you here! I have another 10 days until the B&H lens would have to be returned. I should have an answer from Badger by then - UPS said they should have an answer in 4-5 days. I want to try it to be sure it's worth the money while I have it. It's been raining since the day I got it. I took some indoor shots, but no outdoor yet. The indoor shots are good.

Thanks for taking all the times to reply, Peter. I appreciate your concern and your help.

Liz

[masdog]

Liz,

Sorry to hear about the lens. If it had been me, I would have called my credit card company sooner, probably right after I got off the phone with the salesman, and disputed the charge or had them put a hold on it while I worked it out. I would not let them get paid until after they shipped me a new lens, and they would know that the charge would be held until I got a new product.

[Asylum Steve]

...I would at least wait to see if the lens is damaged or not before I started dealing with all the other stuff.

And to be honest, if the lens was ok, none of the other stuff would matter to me. Packaging doesn't pay my bills. The equipment does...

Now of course, I understand why this is upsetting for you, and in any event I wouldn't buy from that company again after the way they treated you. But the bottom line is the condition of the lens.

That's something that should be fairly easy to evaluate...

[Liz]

[QUOTE=masdog]Liz,

Sorry to hear about the lens. If it had been me, I would have called my credit card company sooner, probably right after I got off the phone with the salesman, and disputed the charge or had them put a hold on it while I worked it out.

They had charged my credit card before they shipped the lens. I didn't think about calling the credit card company, to be honest, as I didn't know they would put a hold on it - or I would have. Someone here suggested it. I called them the day after I received the lens. I made a 2nd call today to get an update and was told the person I spoke with last week gave me the wrong info. The credit card company did credit my account the total amount. However, I was told today, they may decide after 2 weeks to put the charge back on, depending on their assessment of the situation.

Thanks. I appreciate the input.

Liz

[Liz]

I would at least wait to see if the lens is damaged or not before I started dealing with all the other stuff.

It's a little complicated. The day after I got it, I tried the lens out and got all soft images, and it didn't look like the IS was working. Until then, I was going to keep it (I didn't care about the packaging either). Because it's a 3rd generation IS, I couldn't be sure - it might be silent. I had the 28-135 IS a few years ago, and you could see and hear the IS working. I thought it best to return it - and told the dealer the day after I got the lens.

They told me UPS would determine if the lens is damaged. I don't want to rely on UPS with this lens. I don't want the lens because it's way too expensive for me to wonder about every "soft" photo I get - is it me or the lens.

I should be able to get a credit either way. I asked to return the lens a day after I got it (return policy is 7 days) so if it's not damaged, they should honor my request. If UPS says it's damaged, they get the money from UPS and I should get a credit.

Bottom Line: Yes, I was upset with them, but this is not the reason I don't want the lens. If Canon determined the lens was fine, I would take it. However, I'm not convinced that UPS has the right person to make this determination in just a few days. They are supposed to call the dealer within 3-4 days of picking it up.


Liz

[another view]

because they are a small dealer in a small town.

They're not that small, actually. I've run across ads in a couple smaller-circulation magazines (possibly Photo Techniques, Camera Arts, can't remember) and I've heard that name with Large Format gear. I don't know if that helps with anything...

They're in Kaukauna WI, right? It is a fairly small town - been there and spent money at an excellent music store there. Big cheese processing plant there too (really).

[Liz]

I guess I assumed they were small because the same salesman always answers the phone - the one that sold me the lens - so I pictured a small-town camera store with a few employees. I had called a few times previously to see when the lens was coming in and always spoke to the same salesman.

Also, initially they weren't aware that they had the responsibility to deal with UPS and said it was up to me, so it sounded like they never had this problem before. I assumed wrong.

At any rate, I'm not going to report them to anyone. I don't know what I'll do at this point, if they won't give me a credit. I'll cross that bridge later.

Thanks for the info.

Liz

They're not that small, actually. I've run across ads in a couple smaller-circulation magazines (possibly Photo Techniques, Camera Arts, can't remember) and I've heard that name with Large Format gear. I don't know if that helps with anything...

They're in Kaukauna WI, right? It is a fairly small town - been there and spent money at an excellent music store there. Big cheese processing plant there too (really).

[JSPhoto]

Liz,

You can go to the bbb website and they have a search function to see if there are any complaints about a business.

Also, the 3rd generation IS is quiet but you can hear it...barely. However from your comments about soft pictures it may be the AF section in the lens thats damaged.



JS

[Peter_AUS]

I found no records about them on the BBB website. For those that want the link it is http://www.bbb.com

[Liz]

UPS informed me that the lens was shipped back to Badger on the 12th and suggested I call them for the results.

I called - they told me they credited my account yesterday. Whew! what a relief. Obviously I was given no other information. But it doesn't matter one way or the other. I'm just grateful I don't have to pay for this lens - or fight any further battles with Badger.

Thanks for all of your suggestions, advice, encouragement - and just for listening.

I'll stick with B&H.

Liz

This is an update on the Canon 24-105 L IS lens I received (as posted a week ago) in a damaged UPS box - and damaged inside Canon box.

UPS picked the lens up to assess it. I don't know how UPS will determine if the IS works. I explained it all to them.

The dealer - Badger Graphics has been unco-operative and will not give me any information. Initially I was told it was between UPS and me - then they said they would take responsibility since they paid the insurance and would reimburse me when they get a check from UPS.

Today I called Badger for the status. I told them since their return policy is only 7 days, and it is past, how will they handle this if UPS refuses to pay them. They said I had to wait until they hear from UPS, then they will tell me. I told them I need to know if I am going to get credit for this lens. Again, the man said "you have to wait and we'll just take one step at a time." I've never been treated like this from any dealer - they aren't even nice over the phone. They are treating me like it is my fault the box is damaged.

Last week my credit card company assured me they would put a temporary credit on the money, and they would work it out with the dealer. They said I didn't have to do anything except fill out the form - and that my "return period" automatically doubles with this card. I called the ccc today only to find out the "rep" misinformed me, that I don't have extra time on the return, and that they may not even keep the temporary credit on the account - that the person I spoke to was from customer service and didn't know what he was talking about. The woman said, "this is a good lesson for us" but was no help to me either.

Now what do I do? I guess wait - hope and pray - that UPS reimburses them so I get credit. Who knows what they will do if UPS says the lens is fine, even though the box is a mess.

What should I do if they refuse to take the lens back because UPS determines it is ok?

Thanks for any help. Sorry if this is a rant.

Liz

[Stina]

Glad to hear it's all going to work out for you Liz.

[another view]

That's a relief!!

You might want to follow up with the credit card company in a couple days just to make sure that it really is credited.

[Liz]

Thanks! I will definitely do that. I actually already checked online, but of course, it's too early to be there yet. But I'll check every day until it shows up.

Liz

That's a relief!!

You might want to follow up with the credit card company in a couple days just to make sure that it really is credited.

[JSPhoto]

Glad to hear they took care of it Liz!!

[Peter_AUS]

Good to see (well we will wait the credit card recredit to make the final PHew) this resolved and no longer (one would think) an issue for you Liz.

Lesson learned on this one, just to save money, don't by pass B&H. I certainly buy from know trusted resources as well, both (mail order) overseas and here in Australia.

Will be looking for the followup about the Credit Card Company. I think if you rang them, you would be able to get some info about whether there is activity relating to this, even though it might not show up online to you.

[Liz]

Thanks for your kind words........and

Have a great weekend.

Liz

Glad to hear they took care of it Liz!!

[Liz]

Thanks again, Peter, for your concern and advice. I'm always happy to see your around - and always glad to get suggestions from you.

I'll let you know when I see the credit - I can see it online. It usually takes 5-7 business days to come through. I believe they gave me the credit, because every other time I called I got no info and no promises - at least this time, they immediately told me it was taken care of.

Liz

Good to see (well we will wait the credit card recredit to make the final PHew) this resolved and no longer (one would think) an issue for you Liz.

Lesson learned on this one, just to save money, don't by pass B&H. I certainly buy from know trusted resources as well, both (mail order) overseas and here in Australia.

Will be looking for the followup about the Credit Card Company. I think if you rang them, you would be able to get some info about whether there is activity relating to this, even though it might not show up online to you.