night time shooting

[jgredline]

Hi Folks
I was wondering hoping someone could help with some night time / dark condition shooting..While I was at a concert, I took some 70 pics and really these are the only ones that came out ok and these are not that great..I was shooting at iso 800 with my external flash and +3 EC on most of them I think..

I noticed there were some pros their shooting pics with NO flash..How is that even possible? Do I make sense?

[jgredline]

Here is a picture ''WITHOUT'' my external flash...

[SmartWombat]

Without flash?
Expensive fast (f/1.2) lenses, and high ISO speed on very expensive bodies.

[jgredline]

Without flash?
Expensive fast (f/1.2) lenses, and high ISO speed on very expensive bodies.

Yep, that is exactly what I was thinking...I will stick with my external flash.

[GB1]

The ones that worked out for you look okay to me, but yes you will have a lot of disappointments unless you use a very high ISO and fast lens. Try to lean towards wide angle lenses too. Sometimes the scene is better lit than other times. A good photographer will immediately know what he can and cannot get away with. Use a tripod so that at least you don't have your movement affecting the shot (much less the crowd's). GL

[MarcusK]

Hey.. here's something worth considering!

I dunno if the photos taken without flash were standing next to you or not.... but looking at those next to the stage.... it is pretty clear that they are trying to take "Concert Photos" of the band!

From the lights on the sides you should be able.... at ISO 1600 to get great shots (even maybe at 800)

I will posting soon a series of a band i shot... all photos were without flash and they were great! (at least i think so )

For the crowd AND band to come out... like has already been said... high ISO and very fast lens! Or maybe if you know the light design team you can have them help out (if they have moving heads)

Getting closer to them you will not need more than what you already have.....

Marc

[jgredline]

Hey.. here's something worth considering!

I dunno if the photos taken without flash were standing next to you or not.... but looking at those next to the stage.... it is pretty clear that they are trying to take "Concert Photos" of the band!

From the lights on the sides you should be able.... at ISO 1600 to get great shots (even maybe at 800)

I will posting soon a series of a band i shot... all photos were without flash and they were great! (at least i think so )

For the crowd AND band to come out... like has already been said... high ISO and very fast lens! Or maybe if you know the light design team you can have them help out (if they have moving heads)

Getting closer to them you will not need more than what you already have.....

Marc

Marc
I look forward to seeing your pics..
I don't often shoot at night, so it has not really been an issue for me, but, there is allot to be said for night time shots..I have started to look at fast lenses but they are ($$$$$$$$) so I need to learn more before I buy one..It seems that those lenses have fixed focal lengths and is would seem like I would need a couple of them..

Please post some pics..

[another view]

If you can get right in front of the stage (aka "the pit"), a 50mm f1.4 and setting the camera at ISO800 should get the job done very well. Not that you always shoot wide open like that but the viewfinder is a lot brighter so it's a lot easier to see what's going on. I usually shot between f2 and f2.8 in a lot of cases but this will still give you a very shallow depth of field with a moving subject in low light, so the camera has a hard time with autofocus. It ain't easy...

I never used flash - just didn't care for the results, personally. Some people are bothered and distracted by it but really most aren't. If you do get in the pit, you may be told that you can't use flash. Still, don't use it unless necessary - maybe as a special effect for a couple of shots but only if you have permission.

Another tip - experiment with metering modes. I found that on my camera, center weighted with a -1/2 stop compensation worked best, much better and more consistent than matrix. Usually there is no time to shoot in manual because the lights change so fast.

[freygr]

Marc
I look forward to seeing your pics..
I don't often shoot at night, so it has not really been an issue for me, but, there is allot to be said for night time shots..I have started to look at fast lenses but they are ($$$$$$$$) so I need to learn more before I buy one..It seems that those lenses have fixed focal lengths and is would seem like I would need a couple of them..

Please post some pics..

The Normal lens 50mm is not that costly even if you purchase an F1.4, with the F1.8 and F2 being a little cheaper. On digital cameras the 50mm works out to be around 75mm effective focal length which is a nice size (used for portrait work). Anything other than the 50mm lenses are going to be allot more expensive.

[jgredline]

Thanks for the advice Another view and Freygr..
I do have a 50 F1.8 that I did not use that day, Did not even think to..
The lenses I am looking at right now are these..Which do you think would be my best choice..if any.
http://www.pentaximaging.com/product...35mm_telephoto

http://www.pentaximaging.com/product...35mm_telephoto

Thanks again.

[MarcusK]

Here are 5 images from the series... i need to scan the rest, but figured i could post these in the mean time! They were all shot on film... I don't remember all the films but they were either ISO 800 or 1600 (i have 4 rolls or which only one was 1600)

Of course i knew the place inside out, and knew the lights and how they played!

Personally I hate flash photography (mounted flash that is or even built-in) so I always go for no flash shooting at night... of course you can not always get the results you want... the best way to get things is practice with your camera and shoot MANUAL... this is the most important of all.... SHOOT MANUAL.... take pictures (usually starting with widest aperture and 1/60 shutter) these will be the test shots... accordingly you will figure out the rest!

Oh and the lens used here is the kit lens 28-90mm f/3.6-5.4.... you don't need a new lens..... just getting used to the settings of the concert and camera.....

Hope this helps
Marc

[JamesV]

Marc,
Great shots I really like the 4th one.

James

[MarcusK]

James thanks,

The band loved the photos and made me their official photographer hehehe!

They've become friends of mine, and the place where i took the shots, well the light's guy is a friend of mine, so he helped out a lot in placing the light on the band members whenever i signaled him for it!! Which is great considering that it gave some for of extra creative control that u usually dont have in such places!

Of course not all the photos that i took will make it to the finals, but a pretty good number of the ~130 photos did!

Night time photography is a very sensitive topic for me....I believe that the key element in photography is "lack of light" rather than "light"....

I'm not gonna ramble, maybe I'll start up a topic about light.....

Basicaly i started the reply to say this: With the most basic of camera kits, you could take shots in low lights.... as long as it's an SLR of course! And not just any shots but good ones if not the occasional awesome shot!

I gotta get more photography savvy friends.... I keep rambling away here!!!!



Marc

[jgredline]

Marc
I am so sorry, I missed these...I like the first and the last...
Great shots..
Marc..These were shot on film?

[MarcusK]

Javier, thanks....

Yes these shots, as well as the whole series, were shot with film (ISO 800 and one ISO 1600) as far as i remember... I might have tried once an ISO 400 but it is not part of these series....

Anyway, I started with one film... as a test... took the shots at 1/60 shutter on Tv priority (shutter speed priority)... and then the way they came out pretty much decided if i needed to change anything!

I can't wait for the band to perform again, so i could shoot them with my 20D....

I'm glad you like them though!

Marc

[jgredline]

Marc
Those are really nice..That first one and fifth one is breath taking...
I am curious to see how they come out in digital...I have read in other places that film is still the way to go with these types of shots..but I don't know.

[MarcusK]

Javier,

Personally I think film still is the way to go with these types of shots.... and although I haven't stopped using my film camera, I am mostly using the 20D more for the financial benefit as well as the time factor...

With digital, I can take more shots, and the same night or next day, start editing them if i need to.... and maybe even manipulating them "creatively".... personally, my photography is for both the common and majority understanding of photography, as well as the design aspect of my Creative world... sometimes, shots i take that i would not use under the category of photography (if i were to have an exhibition for example) i would use in creating paintings, or as part of some other larger design...

Plus, scanning photos, in order to be good and clear, is also a bit more costly than i would like... Which is why I mostly shoot in digital!

So i think i can compromise the beauty and emotion of shooting with film all the time, for more practical reasons!

Shooting the band in digital will take some time though... probably until January! i need to go home to do that, and well the only vacation time i still got left, is during my xmas break! I guess the festivities will be interesting to film too!!!

We'll see... I'll keep you posted!

Marc