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  1. #1
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    Need Technical/Technique Help

    Hey everyone!

    I hope that because this is my first post, that I won't be ignored.

    I'm 21 years old, and live in Erie, PA. I am on a mission to fill up my walls in my room with photography that I've taken myself. So I need some help. I need help on understanding some terms people use and also there are a few techniques that I've seen around that I need help on learning how to do.

    Here are some of the photos I've taken:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinjmay/2863501572/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinjmay/2863501674/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/kevinjmay/2862668117/

    First off, the camera that I'm using is a Canon EOS Rebel XT. I have a few filters (UV, ND4, CPL) but I am willing to purchase different ones to get the job done.

    One of the techniques I'd like to learn is using over exposure with falling water:
    http://invisiblewl.deviantart.com/ar...rfall-14853552

    Along with that, I'd like to learn how to use the same technique but at night:
    http://mundon.deviantart.com/art/Niagra-13998554

    And lastly using long exposure again with moving lights:
    http://gilad.deviantart.com/art/Dres...-pink-67118929

    Soo... any suggestions on filters for these particular situations, settings, what mode, anything would help! Thanks a lot in advance.


    Kevin May
    Web Designer/Developer

  2. #2
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Hi Kevin,
    Welcome,
    For waterfalls and nite shots a good sturdy tripod plus using the cameras timer will really help. Both of these types of shots require very slow shutter speeds like 1 to 30 seconds.

    hth
    Bob in Denver
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    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
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  3. #3
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Singletracklovr
    Hi Kevin,
    Welcome,
    For waterfalls and nite shots a good sturdy tripod plus using the cameras timer will really help. Both of these types of shots require very slow shutter speeds like 1 to 30 seconds.

    hth
    Alright, thanks for the reply. Just to make sure, would I put my camera on the "Tv" mode and then just adjust the time (1-30) and try to get the best result?
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

  4. #4
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Hi and welcome - as you can see, you don't need to worry about being new to the site.

    With waterfalls - or really any subject - there aren't so much rules as there are guidelines to getting the shot you wantt. The article on this site about exposure is a good place to start, but when you set a shutter speed you need to think about the lens aperture and ISO speeds you'll use. I don't know Canon, so I'm not sure what Tv mode does - is it automatic but you select the shutter speed?

    If you're looking for a "Sierra Club" type shot, start with an overcast day. Shutter speeds of 1 to 30 seconds work but you might not need that much for the effect you want; try 1/30 and slower to see how it looks. How much water and how fast it's flowing of course have an effect (a stream just barely moving at one second won't look like torrential floods at one second) as well.

  5. #5
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    @another_view - Thanks a lot for the reply, I'll keep experimenting.

    Yeah my camera is a bit different. I believe I have to put it on the Tv mode which stands for Shutter-Priority AE Mode, and then mode this dial to adjust the numbers. And my numbers aren't displayed as 1/30, it would be just 30 on the display... I think. So 30" means 30 seconds and 30 in the LCD refers to 1/30 of a second and not 30 seconds.

    Any recommended filters? Or do you think they're not needed.
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

  6. #6
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Hi Kevin,
    Here is an example of moving water using a tripod with the shutter speed set to 1/3rd of a second. To make the water look even smoother I would need to leave the shutter open even longer. That would require me to set the f-stop higher (smaller opening) to maintain the proper exposure. If I can't go smaller that is were a neutral density filter comes into play.
    Other filters I like; Circular Polarizer, Neutral Density ND4 and ND8, Gradient ND4. I also like 6 point star filters for nitetime city shots.
    hth


    Exposure time: 0.333 s (1/3)
    Aperture: f/22.0
    ISO equiv.: 100
    Bob in Denver
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  7. #7
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinjmay
    So 30" means 30 seconds and 30 in the LCD refers to 1/30 of a second and not 30 seconds.
    I can't say with 100% certainty, but I would guess you're right. As you scroll through the shutter speeds, you'll see 500 which would have to be 1/500 and then as they get slower (250, 60, etc) eventually you'll get to 1/2 sec and then if you see 1", 2", 4" etc that would be seconds. It would make sense; this is how seconds are displayed in latitude and longitude (map geek-speak).

    Filters - start with the right kind of light for the best results, but sometimes you just can't get a slow enough shutter speed even though you're at minimum aperture and lowest ISO setting. At that time, a Neutral Density comes in handy; pick up a 4X which is two stops. In other words, if the slowest shutter speed you can get is one second, with the ND you'd get four seconds. There are other "strengths" available too like 8X (three stops) and also a really expensive variable one from Singh-Ray that'll do about 10 stops. I've played around with it and it's cool, but I can't see spending over $300 on one.

  8. #8
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    @ Singletracklovr and another view,

    Thanks for the replies.
    Last edited by kevinjmay; 04-02-2009 at 01:50 PM.
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

  9. #9
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by another view
    also a really expensive variable one from Singh-Ray that'll do about 10 stops. I've played around with it and it's cool, but I can't see spending over $300 on one.
    another view,
    This will blow your mind...
    If you take two polarizers and stack them, then rotate you can get infinite ND. From no ND to total black where no light gets thru.

    kevin,
    Hope you'll post up some of your shots when you get them.
    The other photogs on this site are very helpful and always willing to offer advice.
    Later
    Bob in Denver
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    Larger photos always available in my user gallery
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  10. #10
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Kevin,

    Here's a shot I took back in October in Vegas:



    And the same image after editing:



    I used the same camera you have, settings are aperture: f22, shutter: 30 seconds, ISO 100. No filters.

    The reflections are due to the fact that there was a sheet of plexiglass on the pedestrian bridge. Ultimately the shot was a failure (in my opinion), but it might give you an idea of settings to try.

    One other piece of equipment I might reccomend is the Canon RS60-E3 remote trigger. It's a wired remote that allows you to trip the shutter on the camera without shaking it. It's good for allowing NOT to have to use the timer. Plus, it has a shutter lock, where you can lock the shutter open in bulb mode. (In bulb mode, a shutter setting, the shutter stays open as long as the shutter button is pressed).

    Food for thought. Hope it helps some.

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

  11. #11
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Singletracklovr
    another view,
    This will blow your mind...
    If you take two polarizers and stack them, then rotate you can get infinite ND. From no ND to total black where no light gets thru.
    That's pretty much what the SinghRay is - but I didn't get it to go completely black. You'd have to be in the right conditions to get 100% polarization and I don't think I was. Their filters are among the best made which is why the high price - about the price of two of their polarizers stacked in one ring so its less likely to vignette. Nice, but again pricey!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Dylan8i's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    just to make clear to, in blurring water/car movement, the whole goal is to increase the length of the shutter being open ( to blurr the movement) with out overexposing the scene. which is where the real skill comes in. and where the ND filters come in to play, or why its better to shoot with out much ambient light, and higher F numbers


    also welcome to the site. i havent been up to erie in a few years now, maybe i should make a photo trip, i bet theres a ton to shoot on the lake.
    check out my photography website
    http://dylanschneider.zenfolio.com/



    Please feel free to edit or change any of my pictures to show me how to improve them.



    Nikon D200
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    Nikkor AF-S 18-135
    Nikkor AF-S 60mm macro 2.8
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  13. #13
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    @Medley

    Very nice shot man. That is sort of what I'm going for. I also do have a remote trigger, that I indeed will use. Thats funny I was going to ask if there was a way to have it stay open for however long I hold the trigger down. Very nice to know!

    @Dylan8i

    You really aren't missing too much lol. I'm trying to get OUTTA here to find some really interesting spots to shoot. I was hoping to go to Niagra Falls and try some shots there. And whatever else looks interesting on the way there/back.

    I will post some pictures whenever I get the chance to go on a little trip!
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

  14. #14
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by another view
    That's pretty much what the SinghRay is - but I didn't get it to go completely black. You'd have to be in the right conditions to get 100% polarization and I don't think I was. Their filters are among the best made which is why the high price - about the price of two of their polarizers stacked in one ring so its less likely to vignette. Nice, but again pricey!
    Yea, my comment of none to black is a bit of an over statement. When the two polarizers are aligned it not like looking thru clear glass and when they are 90 degrees it not totally black. It is much darker than a ND8. I also don't zoom all the way in to reduce vignette.
    Bob in Denver
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  15. #15
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Medley
    (In bulb mode, a shutter setting, the shutter stays open as long as the shutter button is pressed).
    I don't think I have this mode on my camera.. or maybe I just can't find it.
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

  16. #16
    Senior Member freygr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Singletracklovr
    Yea, my comment of none to black is a bit of an over statement. When the two polarizers are aligned it not like looking thru clear glass and when they are 90 degrees it not totally black. It is much darker than a ND8. I also don't zoom all the way in to reduce vignette.
    Two notes:
    1) Does not work with Circular Polarizing filters only with linear polarizing filters.
    2) any polarizing filter is an ND2 filter, one F stop
    GRF

    Panorama Madness:

    Nikon D800, 50mm F1.4D AF, 16-35mm, 28-200mm & 70-300mm

  17. #17
    Senior Member Medley's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by kevinjmay
    I don't think I have this mode on my camera.. or maybe I just can't find it.
    You will only find it in the manual mode (M), because the camera can't compute an exposure without a specific shutter time. Set the mode to M, and turn the clickwheel all the way to the left until you see the word "bulb" appear in the viewfinder.

    Finding the correct exposure will be hit-or-miss, unless you happen to have a light meter and knowledge of 'absolute exposure' values. Still, there's nothing wrong with trial and error.

    - Joe U.
    I have no intention of tiptoeing through life only to arrive safely at death.

  18. #18
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Medley
    Still, there's nothing wrong with trial and error.
    Best way to really learn how it works. :thumbsup:

    Don't delete the "bad" ones in-camera. Take a look at them later on your monitor so you can see what they really look like, and what really happens as you adjust exposure.

  19. #19
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    1 last little question... should I probably shoot my photos in raw? I'm sure thats the best thing to do for editing.
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

  20. #20
    Mtn Bike Rider Singletracklovr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Hi Kevin,
    I always shoot in RAW and save my master copy in RAW.
    Converting to jpeg for general use.

    hth
    Bob in Denver
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Dylan8i's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    i never shoot in raw cause all i can do with raw files is convert them to jpeg, so why add the extra step.
    check out my photography website
    http://dylanschneider.zenfolio.com/



    Please feel free to edit or change any of my pictures to show me how to improve them.



    Nikon D200
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    Nikkor AF-S 18-135
    Nikkor AF-S 60mm macro 2.8
    Nikon 70-200 2.8 vr
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    Kenoko extension tube set
    SB-600

  22. #22
    Senior Member freygr's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan8i
    i never shoot in raw cause all i can do with raw files is convert them to jpeg, so why add the extra step.
    Well I've seen the difference on my computer. Raw has 50% more dynamic range for starters. White balance can be set to anything with RAW. RAW is not lousy like JPG. I convert to JPG only for web. For printing I use TIFF file format.
    GRF

    Panorama Madness:

    Nikon D800, 50mm F1.4D AF, 16-35mm, 28-200mm & 70-300mm

  23. #23
    has-been... another view's Avatar
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    Quote Originally Posted by Dylan8i
    i never shoot in raw cause all i can do with raw files is convert them to jpeg, so why add the extra step.
    If you don't need the capabilities of RAW, then I agree - there's no point in taking more time to get the same result. I have a friend who does a lot of corporate event type stuff who does this. He comes home from a gig with a ton of shots, and as long as he spends a minute or two setting up the camera and flash for the situation there's no correction needed.

    However, there's a whole new world out there with RAW. That higher bit depth is very handy if you do work on files, and sometimes a slight white balance change can have a big effect on the overall look of a shot. Getting into it is kind of like opening Pandora's Box (or so it seems) but Nikon Capture NX would be something to look into if you're ever interested - I use it with my D200. I think they still have a 30-day free trial.

  24. #24
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    Re: Need Technical/Technique Help

    I'll probably shoot in RAW. I have photoshop, so working with RAW files is very useful. There is a lot of correction options and editing I can do with them.
    Kevin May @ kevinjmay.com
    Web Designer/Developer

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